Sep 09
Where was the current US President born?
Written by guest on Wednesday, September 9th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Filed under:-guest-posts, -mini-posts | Add comments
Filed under:-guest-posts, -mini-posts | Add comments
A case was filed last month at a US Court alleging US President Obama was born at hospital in Coast Province, the Repulic of Kenya. The case file can be read from here
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http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/kenyan-birth-motion-to-expedite-authentication.htm
The core piece of evidence is a birth certificate obtained through back channel by an immigration lawyer.
http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/obama-certified-copy-of-registration-of-birth-in-kenya.htm
More can be followed on this attorney’s blog
http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/
There were some allegation during last year’s US President election but was rejected as speculation. With newly found evidence, what will be the outcome of this case?
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September 9th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Yeah Shane, that birth certificate is fake:
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/blogs-birthers-doc-fake/
The document says “Republic of Kenya”, but Kenyan republic was established in 1965, a year after Obama was born.
September 9th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
@Charles #1
I read some comment to dispute the document’s authenticity. But looks like the court is moving forward with the case
>> Birthers win a victory in court on Obama birth certificate issue
http://www.examiner.com/x-16327-Clark-County-Liberal-Examiner~y2009m9d8-Birthers-win-a-victory-in-court-on-Obama-birth-certificate-issue
September 10th, 2009 at 4:16 am
Here’s an interview with Orly Taitz, quite painful to watch (though I should say that the journalists should give her more opportunity to speak a full sentence):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOYVr7OKpV0
It’s odd, btw, that the “country of immigration” is so concerned that a president is not born abroad… How many other countries have that restriction?
September 10th, 2009 at 4:39 am
@Shane – Dude:
1) This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CHINA, THIS WEBSITE, OR EVEN REALITY
2) There is no two, you have just reposted a BS story – probably the most thoroughly debunked of our time – about America generated by US conspiracy theorists on a China-centric website. Congratulations.
This reminds me – yet again – of how the Chinese nationalist movement resembles nothing so much as the western far-right in its adherence to conspiracy theories, foreign enemies, and internal traitors.
September 10th, 2009 at 6:43 am
Hey, who knew that Bill O’Reilly is now writing guest posts for FM. What a fantastic development.
September 10th, 2009 at 10:28 am
@FOARP: “This reminds me – yet again – of how the Chinese nationalist movement resembles nothing so much as the western far-right in its adherence to conspiracy theories, foreign enemies, and internal traitors.”
LOL. Couldn’t agree more.
September 10th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
You know, Hu Jintao claims to have been born in Jiangsu, but I heard a rumour that he was actually born in … Hawaii! Is that the sort of person we want as our president?
September 10th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
@Shane9219 #2
Apparently, Shane, you know little of the American judicial system and political system. In this case, erstwhile presidential candidate and publicity hound, Alan Keyes and fellow birthers have apparently found a Federal judge who may listen to him. He has entered a pre-trial request for discovery. He did not rule on the motion for discovery. He did not rule on the motion to dismiss. So what is the big deal? Where is the victory? Shane, are you reading tea leaves?
From the article you cite, “(Judge) Carter ordered a hearing Oct. 5 on the motion to dismiss and ordered arguments submitted on the issue of discovery.” I suggest waiting for that date.
@Wukailong #3 & 6, @FOARP #4, @S.K. Cheung #5
WKL, FOARP and SKC, I quite concur with your opinions. It is a moot issue until some court gives it play followed by more courts. No play has been given yet, except in the court of public opinion. In that kangaroo court, most of the testimony seems to be given by people hell-bent on removing Obama from office, for whatever reason.
Yes, FOARP, this is one more reason why I place no credence in the diatribes of Chinese super-nationalists and fenqing. Or for that matter, I also have no use for American super-nationalists like “birthers”, “teabaggers” and neo-fascists. Shane, you really missed the boat when you did not bring in members from the latter 2 groups when you started this fray. LMAO
SKC, as much as I despise Bill, he would do a much better, more hateful, more thorough, more mendacious, more bombastic and more hubristic presentation. Shane, please do not take this as encouragement to become another Bill O’Reilly. ROFL
WKL, that’s what the world needs more of. Hate-spewing maniacs, no matter what the creed, nationality, or politics. Although, speaking of politics, it seems that right-wingers kind of have a lock on political mania right now, whether in China or the US. And your point on immigration and the birthplace of the President are right on the money.
WKL and FOARP, is it ok if we just give (some gift!) your respective countries “birthers” and “teabaggers”?
Shane, next time, you might want to concentrate on issues that really affect our lives!
September 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
@Jerry – Trying to think of a British equivalent of the “Birthers” – nearest I can think of are the people who are convinced that MI5/MI6 assassinated Princess Diana (Mohammed Al-Fayed, basically), or perhaps the guys who posit that David Kelly was killed on government orders – but they simply don’t have the kind of public platform that Fox et al offers the American ultra-right. However, since the leader of the BNP (British National Party – basically the successor party to the ultra-right British National Front, itself the successor to the British Union of Fascists) has been invited to attend a BBC discussion panel perhaps this is changing.
@Otto Kerner – Funny you should mention it, but when I lived in Nanjing lots of people I knew thought that Hu Jintao was a Jiangsuren from Taizhou (his official bio says he comes from Anhui). Word was that he secretly snuck back to Taizhou (home of the Taizhou television tower, ugliest building I’ve ever seen) to attend his grandfather’s funeral. However, I know of no evidence whatsoever that supports this.
September 10th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
@FOARP,
I remember last year you said something like we were all from Africa 🙂
September 10th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
What does this have to do with China? Are letters now just for any old ramblings?
September 10th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
@Jerry
I am so happy to see there is some sort of sanity that lives in U.S.
@Shane
Please do not get on this crazy train. Somehow from the latest posts from you… you seems like you are losing it… are you ok?
September 10th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Maybe Shane has a point – now some y’all know what a Chinese person feels like when they see laowai BSing about China 🙂
September 10th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
This story sure doesn’t seem to be remotely related to China. A very weird blog entry, Shane, I must say.
However, the collapsing of the post #2 by moderator is even more puzzling. What’s rationale of hiding that post?
The moderator who did it please come forward and explain.
September 10th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
@Charles Liu – But . . but . . . for that to be the case, there would have to be ongoing hysteria in China which was widely believed by a large section of the Chinese public but not by people overseas who weren’t brainwashed by their media to believe blatantly false and fabricated conspiracy stories – are you saying that that’s the case?
September 10th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
The Republican hysteria about the doubts of Obama’s citizenship is mind-boggling. From Kenyan born to questioning his Indonesian citizenship to his own paternal Grandma saying Prez Obamais from Kenya (refuted by a source that the person in charge of interviewing left out a question that his Grandma really say Prez Obama is from Hawaii) to a fake Kenyan citizenship (brought to you by a Republican tabloid blog: WorldNetDaily).
You know this started when one of Hillary Clinton’s adviser (who is an 9/11 conspiracy theorist) cast doubts about Obama’s citizenship and Republican hysteria ensued.
September 10th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
@FOARP,
This reminds me – yet again – of how the Chinese nationalist movement resembles nothing so much as the western far-right in its adherence to conspiracy theories, foreign enemies, and internal traitors.
Where do you read this from? In back of a cereal box? Why is questioning where Obama was born has anything to do with a ‘Chinese Nationalist Movement?’ For all we know, some nutjob from the far right like Beck or O’Reilly would probably say something like this. This is just an expression of one person’s opinion, not some kind of mindset of ‘brainwashed’ Chinese. You don’t think a Chinese person think as an individual? Gees.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:35 am
@FOARP,
I had forgotten that Mr. Hu is supposedly from Anhui. I went to Wikipedia to look it up, and it said Jiangsu. I lived in Anhui for a couple years, and I don’t remember anybody ever bragging that the president was from there.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:04 am
@13 Charles Liu
Maybe Shane has a point – now some y’all know what a Chinese person feels like when they see laowai BSing about China 🙂
Gee and Westerners doesn’t seem to mind crazy people like Beck, Limbaugh and O’Reilly lying their teeth off while Westerners goes bonkers when some Chinese commentator do the same.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:37 am
Gee and Westerners doesn’t seem to mind crazy people like Beck, Limbaugh and O’Reilly lying their teeth off while Westerners goes bonkers when some Chinese commentator do the same.
A bizarre height of monolithism. The people complaining about this post are obviousl no fans of Beck, Limbaugh and O’Reilly.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:42 am
@pug_ster – If by ‘westerners’ you mean ‘Americans’, then perhaps you might want to see Barack Obama’s recent speech in which he called cable/talk-radio commentary on healthcare reform “a lie, plain and simple”. Or the thorough debunking and criticism of the claims of Beck, O’ Reilly et al by bloggers like Andrew Sullivan, websites like Factcheck.org, TV channels like MSNBC, comedians like Jon Stewart, and of course by politicians themselves. Of course all these sources create their own factual inaccuracies, which are then often debunked by other sources. It’s called ‘debate’ and it’s necessary for a functioning democracy – I may not love the United States, and I may think their media servile, and their traditions overly deferential to those in power, but I recognise that America is still a democracy and a thriving one at that
You see, here is where I really don’t get guys like Charles Liu who go to multiple expat blogs (that is, blogs written by people who are living in China) and criticise them for not writing about the problems of the west (where he is living). Charles has told us that he is not a Chinese citizen, was not born in China, and (if I recall correctly) has not lived in China long term – yet he feels free to approvingly repost death threats against prominent Chinese human rights activists, open multiple blogs ‘debunking’ fairly well documented incidents in Chinese history, and troll dozens of China blogs with cut-and-paste comments.
Charles, when you talk about ‘laowai’, you are actually talking about people who have, unlike you, left their home countries to live in China, many of whom have learned the language there, made friends there, started families there – yet you address them as people with no knowledge of China except that gained from what you consider biased sources.
September 11th, 2009 at 3:24 am
There are probably a great deal of Westerners who don’t even know who Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter is, especially in the non-Anglophone world. Btw, when did Westerners “go bonkers” over some Chinese commentator? Again, I think most non-Chinese people do not watch local commentators.
September 11th, 2009 at 3:28 am
Just to confuse matters a little further, here Dr. Laura, a conservative American radio host, comes out in defense of the lip syncing during the Olympics (or at least criticizes hypocrisy in the American media):
http://www.drlaurablog.com/2008/08/19/lip-syncing-at-the-olympics/
September 11th, 2009 at 5:10 am
@miaka9383 #12
Thanks, Miaka, for the nice comment. I have been living in Taipei for nearly 2 years now.
@pug_ster #17, #19, @Otto Kerner #20
Pug_ster, I believe that FOARP’s point is that the rantings and ravings of lunatics are the same, no matter the creed, politics or nationalities. IMHO, the rantings and ravings of Chinese super-nationalists and fenqing are very similar to the rantings of “birthers”. But FOARP needs to answer for himself.
“You don’t think a Chinese person think as an individual?” Huh? I think that most of us consider Chinese people to be individuals with the right to think as they want, when they want. Of course the Chinese people can think as individuals. Or as collectives. Or as small groups. Or anywhere in between. Your statement sounds to me like a cry of pain.
“Gee and Westerners doesn’t seem to mind crazy people like Beck, Limbaugh and O’Reilly lying their teeth off while Westerners goes bonkers when some Chinese commentator do the same.” Again, huh?? Otto, I agree with you, pug_ster has achieved a bizarre level of monolithicism. Pug_ster, as Otto indicates, this is a blatant mischaracterization of those of us who are complaining about the “birther” post and hate-spewing maniacs (my words). Beck, Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Coulter et al are hardly my friends; I do not watch or listen to them. I, for one, object to their hate speech. This same hate speech also seems to make them big money. I wonder if there is a connection here?
@FOARP #21
“It’s called ‘debate’ and it’s necessary for a functioning democracy – I may not love the United States, and I may think their media servile, and their traditions overly deferential to those in power, but I recognise that America is still a democracy and a thriving one at that” I can’t take issue with that.
@Wukailong #22
“Btw, when did Westerners “go bonkers” over some Chinese commentator? Again, I think most non-Chinese people do not watch local commentators.” I am not sure if I even know a Chinese commentator??
September 11th, 2009 at 5:18 am
Sorry, Miaka, my copy and paste skills failed me once more. I wanted my comment to you to show in the email. I added it to #24 post facto. So, here goes again.
@miaka9383 #12
Thanks, Miaka, for the nice comment. I have been living in Taipei for nearly 2 years now.
September 11th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
@foarp 21
That illustrates my point. You say you respect individuality yet you don’t seem to have a problem labeling people ‘chinese nationalist’ yet you get defensive when charles calls laogai. Yet I am following up on charles’ comments and there are people who made irked at my comments. Does it make them trolls? Of course not. So it might be best to overalgenalize people who don’t agree with you as chinese nationalists, fenqings, trolls, among other things.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
@pug_ster #26, @FOARP #21
Pardon me for being dense, Pug_ster, but I don’t see how FOARP’s comments to Charles illustrate your point. Not even close.
IMHO, I think that FOARP has made some good points to Charles in #21.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
@Jerry 27,
It does illustrate my point. Yes, I agree what with FOARP says in #21 and the respect of individuals of Westerners are different. However, it contradicts what he says in #4 of how he over-generalizes “Chinese nationalist movement resembles nothing so much as the western far-right in its adherence to conspiracy theories, foreign enemies, and internal traitors” when someone questions where Obama was born. Not all ‘Chinese Nationalist’ would agree with that statement.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
@Jerry
NP. You are definitely sane then since you are affected by the crazy train by not living in the U.S.
Joe Wilson shouts out “you lie!” during a congressional joint session. And fellow republicans said “well the British Parliament does that!”
@Pug_ster
You also do a little over generalization yourself.
@FOARP
Chill dude! Who cares about what Charles does or says, he is on the crazy train. All you have to do is not get on it with him
September 11th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
@Miaka9383
I was joking following up on Charles’ comment. And yes, some people did ‘went bonkers’ on my statement, so it is somewhat true.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
@Pugster
So are you on this crazy train or off ? 😉 out of curiosity….
September 11th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
@Miaka,
I guess I was. And FOARP started it by his statement in #4.
September 14th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Why this issue has no impact on US-China relations? Obama is US President. Any issue, even perceived ones, will affect public opinion of US population on him and his actions on foreign policy. In that regard, the impact of such issue are huge. Remember Bill Clinton..
September 14th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
This issue has no more impact on US/China relations than 911 conspiracy theorists had an impact on US/China relations, or JFK conspiracy theorists had an impact on US/China relations, or the Elders of Zion conspiracy theorists had an impact on US/China relations, or New World Order conspiracy theorists had an impact on US/China relations, or Philadelphia Experiment conspiracy theorists had an impact on US/China relations, or HAARP conspiracy theorists had an impact on US/China relations, or HIV conspiracy theorists had an impact on US/China relations, or water fluoridation conspiracy theorists had an impact on US/China relations, or… the list goes on and on, and I haven’t even mentioned the Bilderberg group, Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission or Yale’s Skull & Bones.
Does this theory pass the “Occam’s Razor” test? In fact, it does not. It’s just a cable TV blip for talking head ratings, and there are enough nut jobs out there that can be manipulated into believing this nonsense that it gets in the news. The probability that Barack Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii is… zero.
Jerry, do you remember the “Chi Factor” in the early days of computers? Today the term is archaic, but I can remember in college when we would type up a stack of punch cards and bring them to the “computer room” to be processed and later pick up the data report. We were trying to find correlations between raw political election data and could look at different results from that data. The “Chi Factor” was the degree of significance involved in the conclusion. If the chi factor was too low, the result didn’t have enough data to be significant and could not be included in the thesis.
None of this “evidence” has any real significance, and there is an abundance of evidence with a high level of significance (uh, like his birth certificate) to show that Obama was born in Hawaii. What these people are trying to do is wage a “negative” argument, basically saying that it is impossible to prove that he wasn’t born in Hawaii, therefore he cannot be President since there is a “chance” that he wasn’t born there. It is an illogical argument. I think it was the movie “Time Bandits” that at the end pulled back from the world into the universe which was a tennis ball used in a game between two aliens. Prove it isn’t true; you can’t. It’s the same argument shown in its absurdity.
September 15th, 2009 at 4:35 am
This issue has as much to do with US/China relations as Obama’s breakfast selection tomorrow, since, after all, you are what you eat, and what he has for breakfast might affect his mood and statesmanship performance for the rest of the day, which may well impact on his popularity, and yada yada yada…
September 15th, 2009 at 6:07 am
@Steve #34, @shane9219 #33, @S.K. Cheung #35
Steve, you are talking about the chi-square test (χ²; χ is the Greek letter, small chi)), which concerns itself with distribution, goodness of fit, and independence of data. It is a statistical measure/test.
Occam’s Razor is one of my favorite maxims. For me, it boils down to “simpler is better” or “complexity is doomed to failure”. The Romans said, “lex parsimoniae”; I say, “KISS: keep it simple, stupid”. I used that many times at msft when discussing computational complexity. Mandelbrot and Taleb recently used it to discuss the multitude of complex financial mathematical models and their uncertainty caused by inherent collisions with each other: the Black Swan Theory. That led to last year’s $12+ trillion “Global Financial Crisis and Meltdown”. Yes, Shane, that is more than $12,000,000,000,000 dollars. Now, Shane, I would worry more about that, since no controls are yet in place to prevent/mitigate another such financial disaster. Shane, you are worrying about the wrong things. You are worrying about things that don’t matter. Nonetheless, if you wish to do so, it is your right.
Shane, I believe that you actually want this Obama poppycock to be true. Thus, you are trying to establish a teleological basis to prove that it is true. Teleology is just a polite way to say that you are deceiving yourself and trying to convince us that it is true and really matters. As Steve pointed out, this “birther” issue is absurd and without merit. It is both amusing and annoying. Shane, at least I hope you get something out of this, like a personally autographed picture of Allen Keys or a Christmas card from him.
Steve, in your list, you forgot creationism and intelligent design. To paraphrase Garrison Keillor’s take on ID, “Look around at the Bush administration, American politics and our wars. If ID exists, it failed.”
SK, I agree. Yada, yada yada! And then some.
September 15th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Thanks Jerry, for the explanation of the chi-square test. I knew you’d come through on that one!
I realized when it was mentioned on another thread, that I had also forgotten about Chen Shui-bian’s “faked” assassination conspiracy, since it was put forward as the unvarnished truth. That’s another one that doesn’t even come close to passing the Occam’s Razor test.
September 16th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Uh oh. It’s predictable how touchy the folks from the Western nations get when the Chinese starts to talk about politics in Western nations. Why, they get offended by the ignorance. The vice versa is true as well that when the Chinese folks call on ignorance of the Western folks, these Chinese folks are labeled as “nationalists”. Whatever.
Other than making this exact point I am not sure why this thread even exists on this blog though? It has nothing to do with China and Obama is clearly an American.
I would much rather discuss the recent tire embargo. Obama is acting like the CEO of Goodyear. Maybe he should focus on getting healthcare reform passed first. Hmm. Chinese vs. US healthcare, now that’s another topic someone here should research and write about.
September 16th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
@ hzzz #39: That’s the point, there isn’t any reference to the Chinese talking about this issue, just weirdo birthers. If Chinese media or politicians began to talk about how this issue affects relations between the two countries, then it’s a perfectly good topic to discuss. Who’s touchy? Everything I’ve read just says the topic has nothing to do with China, including your post. 😉
I’ve been reading about the tire issue (it’s not an embargo, it’s a tariff) but I wasn’t sure just how much of it was posturing. I was going to wait a few weeks to see how the issue developed. Right now, there’s not much to discuss. The US can do what they did, and China can respond the way they did. Both are perfectly acceptable under current trade rules so for me, it’s a tempest in a teapot unless it escalates.
hzzz… maybe you could write up something about China vs. US healthcare reform for the Letters section? I don’t know much about Chinese healthcare and wouldn’t feel qualified to write it up. I’m also not sure how much information you can really find about current Chinese healthcare on the net that is accurate. I’d much rather get information from Chinese people living in China since it’d be more realistic.