Jul 27

Are you a Chinese basher or a Chinese apologist?

Written by guest on Monday, July 27th, 2009 at 4:11 am
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Most likely your answer is neither. It is human nature to assume him/herself is unbiased.

Both the bashers and apologists have been brain washed. They will not listen to a different point of view, let alone discuss with you with open minds.

Depending on the topic I could be guilty as charged.

I wrote a piece in comparing human right between China and US. I have the highest approval rating from one forum. More than 100 read the long comment and voiced their approval.

The piece is here.

My piece on Tibet did not fare that well. Judge it for yourself.

There were more comments on my comment than the original article. Most are Tibetan exiles I guess. So, their POVs are completely different from my Han’s POV. I understand and accept their disapproval.

We hope we’re all be able to understand each other’s POV even if it completely different from yours. We do not want to limit our point of view like the frog under a well but a fool that can move mountain.

Reading the recent posts inspire me to write the above. Hope it will not offend any one.

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14 Responses to “Are you a Chinese basher or a Chinese apologist?”

  1. Flags of the Republic Says:

    Hey Tony,

    Can I apologize about my Chinky bashing? I guess you can call me a Chinky Bashing Apologist – CBA instead of ABC. Kinda like them Self-hating Jew thing :-).

  2. TonyP4 Says:

    Hi FOTR,

    No need to apologize. We just send the offender to labor camp to self-criticize and re-educate, haha.

    CBA has been reserved for Canadian born American, 🙂

  3. wukong Says:


    It would be nice to put in clickable links for your blog posts instead of hard URL text.

    You can count many casual readers out if it requires more effort than one click of a mouse to get there 😛

  4. Steve Says:

    @ Wukong: I cleaned up Tony’s post to make it a one click item. TonyP4, hope that was ok. 🙂

  5. TonyP4 Says:

    Thanks folks.

    I do not know how to do it with regular Letter – could be due to my ignorance. The other version of FM allows me to do so, I guess. I found some grammatical errors too, sorry.

    This article reflects ourselves. FMers are less biased compared to many other forums such as Washington Post.

  6. Wukailong Says:

    Seems nobody answered Tony’s original question. I guess I could be called both by others who do not know me and base their opinions on me on my last comment.

    I’m an apologist for: gradual reforms, many of the things the Communist Party does (yes, even strengthening their power since that will make the government more effective), the development the last 30 years and some of the things that Mao actually did well (creating infrastructure, providing healthcare etc).

    I’m a basher when people claim that there are no real problems in China, or that all problems are actively worked upon, or all ethnical problems are the work of the DL and RK, or using the West as a scapegoat for just about anything.

    I like what Tony said about “dumb nationalism.” There’s nothing wrong about loving your country, but there’s also nothing right about getting dumb out of this love.

    Now I expect flames against me! 😀

  7. TonyP4 Says:

    When I see the smiling face in almost every post here, you guys do not take me seriously. 🙂

    Our bias has been developed from our past experience. I have a good friend whose mother never buy Japanese products as she saw how the Japs shot all the men in her village and another friend who suffered from the communist’s prosecution.

    Also, it seems all the EUers sleep together too and all mainlanders have the own unified opinions. The overseas Chinese seem to speak my language. Accepting other folks’ point of view is important to create less conflicts.

    Hi Wukailong, thanks for the kind words. Once I saw a couple holding hand-in-hand. The strangest thing is the lady almost lost her face. It is true love and beauty is from the inside. Who says love is not blind? Same as loving our own country/race…

  8. Uln Says:

    “…Chinese basher or chinese apologist? Most likely your answer is neither. It is human nature to assume him/herself is unbiased.”

    Well, sincerely I think I am neither of them, and it will take more than this post to convince me of the opposite. I am critical with the CPC (although I acknowledge their achievements) and in the same time I am very fond of China and the Chinese, what’s wrong with that?

    But apologist? I dont think so. This word is best used with a doctrine or a political party, not with a country. If you supported the KMT in 1948 you were, in the eyes of your contemporaries, a “China apologist”. If you did the same 2 years later, then you were a “China basher”. That shows just how empty those notions are, and how we should never mix politics with human relations. Liking China and its people has absolutely nothing to do with discussing its politics.

    Regarding the joke in your blog: yes, I completely agree, the US is a human rights violator comparable in many fields to the PRC (and in foreign affairs much worse than the PRC). However I don’t see how this is is connected to my criticizing the CPC’s policies.

    PS. TonyP4: if all this post was meant to be a joke, then sorry, I give you a smiley 🙂 But I just wanted to make things clear because there are too many people out there that really believe what you wrote.

  9. Uln Says:

    Where has this post gone?

  10. TonyP4 Says:

    Hi Uln, we’re among the few who are not ashamed of self-criticizing. We’re pretty right to be open minded in discussion and sometimes we’re biased a ‘little’.

    Life is a joke for me. If we do not laugh and look at the brighter side in life, we would be miserable. I do not believe a lot believe in me. Just in case, I’ll be more careful in my ‘writing’.

    I did not take any college classes other than the required in humanity. I just use common senses trying to explain why events happen in my world. Sometimes I may be accused of being too emotional or ignorant. It’s OK as life is a big joke to be enjoyed and not to be worried.

  11. uln Says:

    Hi Tony,

    I was just rushing to catch up with FM, as I hadn’t written for ages, so I guess I read and replied too fast. Ouch! it is embarrassing to realize I wrote too seriously on what was meant to be a light post. The thing is, like many of us here, I have been accused of both “basher” and “apologist”, thats why I might have overreacted 🙂

  12. hongkonger Says:

    TonyP4 …

    “It’s OK as life is a big joke to be enjoyed and not to be worried.”

    Ok, so for anyone over 35, you would very likely have heard the following true-thee-ness, at least once ………

    “The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding / in all of the directions it can whiz / as fast as it can go / the speed of light you know / twelve million miles a minute and that’s the fastest speed there is / so remember when your feeling very small and insecure / how amazingly unlikely is your birth / and pray that there’s intelligent life somewhere up in space / cause there’s bugger all down here on Earth,” sings the Man in Pink while the Grim Reaper goes: “Englishmen, you’re all so bloody pompous. None of you have got any balls. Shut up, you American. You Americans, all you do is talk, and talk, and say “let me tell you something” and “I just wanna say.” Well, you’re dead now, so shut up,” and finally the Headmaster after Bible reading announces: “Yay, and placed they the bits in little pots. Now, it has come to my attention that some pupils have been rubbing linseed oil into the School Cormorant. Now, of course, the Cormorant Commerates Empire Day, when we try to remember the names of the people of the town of Sudbury who died to keep China British. So the Cormorant is now OUT OF BOUNDS! And OH, Jenkins apparently your mother died this morning.” A~Men….

  13. admin Says:

    Two videos for this light post.

    China Celebrates Status As Number One Polluter

    Chaser’s War on Everything – APEC, China’s Hu Jintao

  14. TonyP4 Says:


    * China does not get the pollution per capita honor, and that goes to US.

    * Which one is better?

    – get the organs, scare their citizens not to commit any crimes…


    – argue the case with millions for trials, send the convicted to resort-like campus for life, leave the convicted’s wife with billions to enjoy…

    The first one benefits every one except the convicted, and the second one only the lawyer, the victim’s wife and the victim’s wife’s boyfriend. 🙂

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