Nov 18
Intercultural relationship and marriages
Written by miaka9383 on Tuesday, November 18th, 2008 at 6:07 am
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Living here in United States, I have become more and more exposed to certain racial problems and issues.
It seems like many Chinese women/men have no problem immigrate here and marry a white/black man. But there are some Chinese Americans and Asian Americans believe that these people who marry white people is catering to the “White Priviledge” and encouraging many other people of our race to worship the white culture.
What do you guys think? Do you believe it to be a problem? or do you have a problem seeing a Chinese gal/guy with a White gal/guy?
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It seems like many Chinese women/men have no problem immigrate here and marry a white/black man. But there are some Chinese Americans and Asian Americans believe that these people who marry white people is catering to the “White Priviledge” and encouraging many other people of our race to worship the white culture.
What do you guys think? Do you believe it to be a problem? or do you have a problem seeing a Chinese gal/guy with a White gal/guy?
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November 19th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Miaka9383, Hi,
I am neither Asian neither American, so I am not sure I am qualified to answer your questions 🙂
However, It seems to me that this pattern is common to most of migrants, not only for the Chinese.
If you look at the different immigration waves in the ‘Western’ countries, you might find the same features (ethnicity, religion, or even social class).
Usually, the second generation is the most lost in its identity. They are born in a country but their identity is not clear for them, and may lead to a complete rejection of their home and to a mythification of the country where their familiy is coming from.
With the exception of Gypsies, I don’t really see an example of failed integration after 3-4 generations.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
bt is european, so he must endure the shame of seeing his homeland taken over by africans and people from middle east. How sad.
Back to topic, chinese sperm is always good for getting good looking mixed girls. 🙂
November 19th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Well, Michael, it’s true. I know many chinese girls simply adore Eurasian children. Some ache to nurture such living dolls. I love Eurasian kids, too, but this is true with the offsprings of most any mixed racial couples. Look at these beautiful people: Venessa Williams, Tiger Woods, Maria Carrie, Keanu Reeves, Beyonce, etc., all offsprings of mixed marriages.
Anyway, back on topic re: “the worship the white culture” First of all what is that? If you are talking about America, it is just American culture, a mixture / melting pot of many cultures. Good or bad is subjective. As for European cultures, I dunno, according to Michael, his part of Europe is losing its “Whiteness” very fast, hence he is in China. In any case, for those of you who maybe diehard cultural puritans, fear not, there will always be more of you than those who are willing to marry outside of their own race and culture in any ethnicity.
Besides, Marriage is hard work, so, it ain’t no picnic no matter what culture they make their matrimonial beds in.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Hi HKer, nice to see you 🙂
I agree with you, Eurasians are often pretty nice!
November 19th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Being that my marriage is interracial, I’d say they have it all backwards. It’s right in my marriage contract that I have to worship my wife. 😛
Seriously, we’ve never encountered a problem with others as far as our marriage is concerned. Anyone who thinks in terms of White Privilege or worshipping white culture, well… they’ve never been married. From what I’ve seen, the odds of encountering this attitude would be higher in China than in the States or Taiwan. But even when we were in China, it was never a problem and no one ever said anything negative near us.
miaka9383 talks specifically about Chinese immigrant women marrying outside their race. Here in San Diego, a bunch of Chinese/Taiwanese women who married Americans had formed a club to talk about cultural assimilation issues. After awhile, they invited their husbands to join and when they invited us the first time, it was always mixed get together barbeques or dinners. It’s fun to go there because these are all long term successful marriages (10+ years) and in every one, the couple lives between two cultures, not exclusively one or the other, and all the husbands have been to Asia or met their wives there. I think that’s the real secret of this kind of marriage; you have to respect and like each other’s cultures to be successful.
Interestingly, none of the guys had “yellow fever” and with pretty much everyone, our wives were the only Asian girls we had ever dated. The “yellow fever” or “white fever” marriages don’t last. In fact, the only married couple we’ve met from there that divorced was a white girl who met her Zhejiang husband while teaching English in Beijing. To be honest, the guy was nice but the wife seemed a bit eccentric.
One thing I’ve noticed is that for mixed marriages, class is more important than race. It’s a lot easier for a well educated person with class to marry outside their race; it seems they can compromise and adjust more easily to another culture. I’m not sure why that is; it’s just something I’ve noticed.
michael, if you go by the numbers, you’d have to say Chinese egg is always good for getting good looking mixed girls. 😛
November 19th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Although not directly relate to the topic but this post reminds me of a cartoon strip I read as a kid eon ago. The artist/author name is, I believe, Wang Tze. The title of the cartoon (as best as I can translate) ‘Lao Fu-Zi, Mr. Chin and Potato Head’ This particular strip stays in me as vividly as if I just read it yesterday. The rough description and translation is as follow:
1st panel: Lao Fu-Zi ran into a well-dressed young man in western garb, all western-manner, business like and serious looking;
2nd panel: The well-dressed young man began lecturing how rude Lao Fu-Zi was and how stupid he looked in his traditional Chinese garb: ” I am well educated at the best western schools since birth, I have discarded all manners that look and feel Eastern; I adopted all things Western…’;
3rd panel: to which Lao Fu-Zi replied: “But, son, you still look Chinese to me…”
4th panel: The well-dressed young man ran to his home and complained to his mother in tear: ‘Mom! why didn’t you marry a westerner before!!!???’
November 19th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
It’s right in my marriage contract that I have to worship my wife.
LOL… how long have you been married?
“The “yellow fever” or “white fever” marriages don’t last. ”
My White American buddy just told me last night that his Chinese wife told him to stop putting her on the pedastal, but to just love her, not to be in love with his own ideas of her.
“class is more important than race.”
Steve, I guess the old chinese saying, “门家互对, Wooden doors to Wooden doors, Bamboo doors to Bamboo doors,” is right in this case, huh? 🙂
Frankly, Steve, I am clueless how some marriages work so well, while others don’t. I am a friend of at least 10 Asian wives and Western husband couples for over twenty years. All of them are still together. Ironically, it is the same race marriages that I know that have fallen apart.
The story of this one couple friends of mine whom I am particularly proud of is a Korean and a black-American union. They met in Hong Kong, and when the time came to face the girl’s family, knowing the deep racism towards blacks in Korea in the 80s still, she was too scared to go with him back to Korea. SO, my buddy flew to Korean alone. Sure enough, he had the korean family door slammed on his face with his first attempt, and many hung-up phone calls thereafter. However, about two weeks later, he returned with the Korean family’s blessing. They have now been married for over 22 years.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
@ dan: Is this the comic strip you were talking about? http://www.oldmasterq.com/
If so, it’s probably contained under the comic archive.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Steve,
Yes! Thank you. I thought I will never see ‘him’ again.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
@ Hongkonger: How long have we been married? Put it this way, our sons are 25 and 23. The oldest looks mostly white but the youngest looks more Chinese. Luckily for him, he has a “high” nose so the Asian girls are all hot for him. I had high, middle and low noses explained to me in great detail by a girl in China. The funny thing about his looks is that when people don’t know his ethnic background, their first guess is Brasilian. A lot of mixed race kids get that same response. 😛
Based on what I’ve seen, I’d have to say that with occasional exceptions, that old Chinese saying is exactly correct. The marriages that fall apart the quickest are the ones between servicemen and local girls, with most of those local girls being “bad girls”, as my female Chinese colleagues would describe them.
A good friend of mine was Dow Chemical’s corporate Asian lawyer for seven years (believe it or not, back then they only had one lawyer for all of East and Southeast Asia) back in the 70s. He met his future wife in Taipei and it got to the point where he had to meet her parents. He had to come in the back door so the neighbors wouldn’t see him. They were not happy about the situation but he was finally able to get their approval. And he was a wealthy corporate lawyer!
Fortunately for me, my wife’s family is pretty worldly and had no problem with our marriage. In fact, I think I can say with confidence that I’m her family’s favourite in-law. When my parents visited Taiwan, they were treated like royalty.
Koreans are really hard to get the family approval, which I think is pretty funny because they go on and on about being “pure blood” Korean, yet everyone and their brother has conquered and intermarried in that country. They might be one of the least “pure” races in Asia!
November 19th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
“I had high, middle and low noses explained to me in great detail by a girl in China.”
This is the first time I’ve heard of that despite the fact that my dear mother, God rest her soul, was always going on about the importance of a good nose, yet, it had never occured to me to ever ask her why she’d thought that way. Perhaps, you would be so kind to enlighten me on this? I suspect it has to do with XiangXue (相学): the studies of facial fortune telling, no? 🙂
November 19th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
@ Hongkonger: No, it’s actually not that complicated.
When I was in China, quite a few girls complimented me on my nose, chin and eyelashes. My initial reaction was “???????” But then I learned that my chin was unique compared to a Chinese chin (fortunately in a good way), my eyelashes were long and curled up (something I never noticed in my life and had to look in the mirror that night to know what they were talking about) but I never figured out the nose thing.
Then on a flight to Shenzhen, I sat next to the cutest girl I ever saw in China. She was going to university in the UK, was flying home for her Christmas break and we got to talking. Her personality seemed to fit my youngest son so I got her hotmail address and kinda matched them up. Ended up my youngest son visited her in England and they became great friends (actually, a bit more than friends).
Anyway, she knew she was mondo cute but hated her “low” nose. Her nose was also really cute so I asked her about it. She said the first thing a Chinese girl looks for on a guy is his nose. A low nose is one where the bridge is flat and the nose sticks out at the bottom. A middle nose has a bridge that starts further up and a high nose starts the highest up and is the most pronounced.
When I was in China, I had several girls ask me why western guys dated ugly Chinese girls. I said, “Well, maybe they love them” but I had no idea what they meant. Later, I found the definition for beauty was different between east and west. I’ve seen girls there that to me had (relatively) big noses for Chinese that I felt weren’t attractive, but the guys there thought they were hot.
Next we’ll have to discuss women’s upper arms 😛
November 19th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
@Steve,
“Next we’ll have to discuss women’s upper arms”
Ok, see what you’ve done? Now you got me all excited about girls at 6:30 a.m.. LOL…So, What about women’s upper arms? I am a sucker for thin arms but not so thin legs that leads to a nice round, perky…um, anyway, what were you saying about the upper arms again?
November 20th, 2008 at 12:46 am
@Hongkonger: I guess I was like everyone’s big brother over there and since I ask a lot of questions, I learned a lot about many things. 🙂
It seems all women in China want thinner upper arms. I had a friend of mine who was 155 cm. and weighed 42 kg, yet wanted to lose weight. She was very petite and athletic, and for that type of figure she was perfect so I asked, “Where do you want to lose weight?” and it was her upper arms. They all seem to want twig arms, for some reason.
From what you describe, it seems you ought to go to Seoul. That’s a typical Korean figure.
November 20th, 2008 at 1:31 am
“From what you describe,[…]That’s a typical Korean figure.”
LOL..Steve, you read my mind…..I’ve been to Seoul … The first time I was there, I almost walked into a couple of lamp posts because i was not paying attention where i was going. I couldn’t stop looking (gawking at times) at those hot leggy Korean girls, boy oh boy…
I think China’s Dalian babes, Northeastern girls and Korean girls are very much alike, figure-wise. Then there are those mesmerizing Chinese girls with green/blue/light brown eyes in hei long jiang…Boy oh boy, what a lovely world. 🙂
November 20th, 2008 at 2:02 am
Hongkonger:
I haven’t been to Heilongjiang or Dalian yet, just a lot of time in Tianjin. The girls there were pretty tall compared to other parts of China that I spent time in. I remember they had very nice complexions and tended to be bigger than girls in other parts of China.
Korean girls typically had petite upper bodies, very tiny waists and more muscular legs. They seemed to average around 165 cm or so. I think they had the nicest arms of all Asian women.
Taiwan girls were on average the prettiest in all of Asia. It was rare to find an unattractive girl there. Their figures tended to be pretty petite. Most were size 0 or 2.
In Shanghai, I thought the prettiest girls were the ones from Zhejiang province. They have really beautiful light skin. I only spent two days in Shenzhen but met the cutest girl in Asia (and possibly the world) there. I spent more time in HK. Our HK office manager was beautiful, smart, really nice and… single? What’s the matter with Hong Kong guys?????? 🙂
Many Singapore girls I saw were more exotic looking, even though they were Chinese. They reminded me more of southern Chinese girls.
On average, I didn’t think the girls in Japan were very pretty. However, the most beautiful girls I saw in Asia were in Japan. There’s not a lot of them, but the ones that are beautiful are really beautiful. But I have to say that Chinese women have much better figures. I also noticed a lot of girls in Japan were pigeon toed. I never saw that in China.
There’s a Taiwanese couple here that we are friends with. The husband has worked for Sony for over 30 years. He told me that every American Sony employee who had met and married someone from Japan while stationed over there, eventually got divorced. Every single one. So beware of Japanese girls working for Sony who start flirting with you. 😛
OK, your turn…
November 20th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
@all you guys..
Thanx for responding.. but
Specifically some young asian americans in California and other asian populated communities seems to make a big deal out of it. Which I don’t understand…because growing up in Taiwan and then in New Mexico.. I don’t see this racial problem. So I don’t understand this… “White priviledge” mentality comes from in the first place… and if people point out to me that I have it… I don’t know how I have it… is it because I am dating a white man?
They said white influences are everywhere.. I don’t see it!! I am confused about this up and coming Asian American Activism… …against .. asian girls dating white guys…. or vice versa…
November 20th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
@miaka9383: Sorry we got silly there. Back to your question; I’ve seen this thread concerning interracial dating on sites like Stuff Asian People Like, etc. I think most of it comes down to jealousy and individual insecurity. In its worst form it’s just bigotry.
It is probably because you are dating a white man. Then you get the “banana” comments, etc. My wife’s heard those too but more as a joke rather than an insult. It’s easy for them to try and pigeonhole you into attitudes you don’t have and never even thought about. My wife grew up in Taiwan and came here when she was 28, so somewhat similar to your situation. Are you turning your back on your own culture? Not really; your culture is American in whatever form you want it to take. I’m sure you are still Taiwanese in many cultural ways, but you might want to be more like the the standard American attitude in other ways. I’ve heard some Asian Americans refer to this as being “disoriented”. 😛
Remember, Asian American activism against interracial dating is not activism, it’s racism, plain and simple. You should date whoever you want to. Why limit yourself to one race or one culture? By moving to the States and adjusting to this kind of life, you’ve already shown yourself open to other cultures. You just might be more open to them than the people who try to criticize your lifestyle choices.
miaka, I’ve always felt it best in my own life to have as many options open to me as possible. People who limit their options tend to have narrow minds…
November 20th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
@ miaka9383
Hi~ my point was that you can find these exclusion stuffs occur in a lot of countries, on both sides (the majority, the minority, whatever). Then you are a ‘banana’, a ‘coconut’, a ‘goy’, a ‘gay’, whatever …
It’s a common feature until inter-something unions become widely accepted in the place where you live.
I am French, and 50 years ago to marry a German was clearly a problem. Nowadays, it’s just considered cool.
The only advice I could give you is to not to accept the role of the victim. Live your life, and try not to be too much worried about what the other people are thinking.
November 20th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
This is hilarious!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63bWYFGBTuE&feature=related.
….If you are not offended (and starts screaming “racism”) go on to watch,
“Why Asian girls go for WHite guys?”
November 20th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
hahaha, so funny 🙂
November 20th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
hahaha, and it takes place in San Diego!!! 😛
November 20th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
“They said white influences are everywhere..”
Ok, what is “White” influence? Is it Hollywood movies? Is it girls wearing Calvin Klien male underwears/boxer shorts? Is it Rock music or Christianity, or what? I’m with Maika9383, I don’t get it either.
In “Why Asian girls go for WHite guys? on Youtube, those Asian girls except for one, despite what they said were interested also in Asian guys — but hey, guys, it’s in most culture that the guys make the first move, duh?
Concludion: Girls like to be wooed…Right. And White guys, Black guys, brown guys MAKE the FIRST moves. THEY GO for the Asian girls, and some (many) Asian girls responded. So, take the advice from your fellow Asian guys & gals – Don’t be shy, just try. Make the first moves, dudes.
November 21st, 2008 at 12:02 am
It’s not just Asians.
What you tend to see is:
Black guys with Hispanic girls.
White guys with Asian girls.
Black guys with White girls.
White guys with Hispanic girls.
Black guys with Asian girls.
What you almost never see is:
Asian guys with White girls.
Hispanic guys with Asian girls.
White guys with Black girls.
Asian guys with Hispanic girls.
Hispanic guys with White girls.
Asian guys with Black girls.
Hispanic guys with Black girls.
The conclusion is, Asian and Hispanic guys and Black girls are the pickiest, Black guys are the least picky. Everyone else falls in between. Black women tend to go ballistic when they see a black guy with a non-Black girl.
My uncle is Japanese American and he didn’t seem to have a problem marrying a white girl, so there are exceptions. I think a lot of it has to do with confidence and humor. Bruce Lee didn’t seem to have a problem either, though he had plenty of confidence, style and humor. Japan’s Admiral Yamamoto had many white girlfriends when he was stationed in the States before the war. 🙂
Something I’ve noticed… when men look at girls, they tend to give weight a lot of importance. When women look at guys, they tend to give height a lot of importance. Do you think that could have something to do with it?
I think the guy who made that movie has had plenty of Asian girlfriends.
November 21st, 2008 at 12:29 am
I understand everything you guys are saying.. but you know you can’t help but to think.. are you not supporting the cause because you are dating a white man…
I mean.. to these guys its more than that.. its about how there’s more white guys with Asian girls on big screen…. or the black guy always die first…. or how Asian girls wants double eyelids and lighter skin…..
To them that is white worshipping and many other things……
So if there is an Asian american Activism… what should it be?
November 21st, 2008 at 12:38 am
Right on, Steve.
OK, here’s a question from my observation.
Other than the odd chance of true love being the reason, is it not more common that marital unions are mostly as a result of or hinges upon personal shareable finances and social economics? It is certainly crucial in maintaining a marriage.
In the early days of the opening of the Shenzhen border gates to HK, hundreds of thousands of Hong Kong guys, mostly truck drivers, then salesmen and clerks that got stationed their, single and married alike, young, middleaged and geriatrics, flocked into the Mainland and instantly (well, you know, within 24 hours to 24 weeks) found themselves in love and started families and / or a second family. Reasons? Mainland girls were/are less picky and HK men were/are comparatively (compared to most mainland guys back then) more capable, financially that is,
of supporting a family, and were comparatively nicer and more generous with the girls. Again, it was almost entirely due to financial advantages. With the much lower cost of living on the Mainland and the higher income streams in HK, it is/was just easier for the guys from across the border.
November 21st, 2008 at 4:36 am
@ miaka: I have the feeling someone said something very insulting to you about this, and it hurt you deeply. I googled Asian American activism and there is nothing about who you date. I think someone or a few people are trying to manipulate you into thinking something exists that doesn’t.
More white guys with Asian girls onscreen? That’s true but in the past, outside of Suzy Wong there weren’t Asians with anyone besides Asians. So it’s a step in the right direction. Also, if Asian guys aren’t very interested in non-Asian girls, then what is the market for that situation? Movies will reflect what is on the street.
Black guy always dies first? Not in a Will Smith picture, not in a Wesley Snipes picture, etc. Usually the hero stays alive and everyone else dies.
In Taiwan, many girls get the double eyelids, not to look like westerners but to have bigger eyes. Asian guys go for that. You’ll have to ask them why. To be honest, I’d hate it if my wife changed her natural eyes. I love them exactly the way they are. When girls have double eyelids, their eyes don’t have the range of movement and express less of their personality.
Asians have prized lighter skin for centuries. It has nothing to do with Caucasians; it has to do with not working in the fields. Every country in east Asia has this same hangup.
Asian American activism is based on eliminating discrimination against all Asians. It has nothing to do with who you date. In fact, it is against racial bigotry of all types, including some stupid guys or girls putting you down for your choice of a boyfriend. So whoever is telling you that you are not supporting the cause because you are dating a white man is going against the principles of Asian American activism.
Americans don’t have kings or queens, so we can’t worshp those. We can worship God if we choose, and we can worship our spouse if we’re lucky. But we can’t worship whites. It’s against the American way! 😛
miaka, the fact that you asked and are concerned about this means you have a good heart and try to get along with everyone. You seem like a very kind person. I hope you continue to post on this blog because you are thoughtful and intelligent. Your comments are always very welcome.
November 21st, 2008 at 4:49 am
@miaka: You might want to visit this website at Stanford University: http://www.stanford.edu/group/saaac/
It is the Stanford Asian American Activism Committee. You can read what they stand for on the left. Since you mentioned California and that’s a California university, it should be what you are looking for.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:00 am
@Hongkonger: After you read this, get over to the “indie music” post. There’s a whole bunch of new stuff for you to listen to.
For me, marrying someone who marries you because it’ll get them out of poverty isn’t much of a marriage. The whole thing is unbalanced. Those “Chinese wives” you mentioned are really just mistresses. The guys usually married them because they’re a lot younger but their loyalty is to their wives outside of the mainland. The girls are usually from dirt poor families who send money to their parents.
Money keeps the marriage from being miserable from a materialistic point of view, but it doesn’t make a marriage happy. Lack of money is the root of all evil, but I know plenty of wealthy couples that have marriage problems. People adjust to new circumstances pretty quickly. The poor girl with nothing adjusts to having money and pretty soon she can’t remember not having it. Then things break down quickly.
I think for a happy marriage you need to have love, emotional and lifestyle compatibility, and a sense of humor. You can’t see the other person having “good” and “bad” points. That is the head and tail of a coin; there is only one coin. Without the “bad” points, there wouldn’t be any good points because we are all an intrinsic whole. You either love someone completely or you don’t really love them at all. You should want to spoil your spouse and he/she should want to spoil you. If you both do that, what is there to argue or fight about or destroy your happiness?
My wife says the secret of a happy marriage is to treat your spouse like he/she is one of your customers. It sounds funny at first but when you think about it…. 😛
November 21st, 2008 at 6:14 am
“treat your spouse like he/she is one of your customers.”
LOL, that’s a good one.
I know another similar Chinese saying, ” Husbands & wives should treat each other as VIPs or as honored guests.”
Here’s another interesting take on married relationship:
夫妻如乱伦
结婚六年，夫妻如乱伦. 这是一个女性写的文章，写得很好，不过只写了夫如子的
部分，尚缺如父如兄….http://xiaoshenghaobaobao.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!523E42DDF…
Above is an interesting Chinese article by a woman, entitled 夫妻如乱伦 “A Husband & Wife relation is like incest.”
I’ve heard it said that a woman sometimes sees her husband as a grown up son (IN the west you have the saying “boys will always be boys”)
November 21st, 2008 at 5:51 pm
@miaka: You might find this interesting since it addresses some of the situations you brought up: http://www.asian-central.com/stuffasianpeoplelike/
November 21st, 2008 at 6:24 pm
@Steve
I am part of the Concern Citizen against Asian Girls dating Fat Ugly White men group on facebook…
the only reason I am on there is because I thought the title was fun and sarcastic until I dealt deeper into the issue and realize a lot of these guys are bitter and attack women like me…
so I go and defend and then if you have an intelligent conversation with these guys… I realized that they do have some valid points of where White Priviledges exists… but my question is.. does it really effect the Asian American Community that much….
Of course the guy who is an admin is an UCSD Student but how much does these affect our everyday life?
But you know on the forums that I rarely visit, I have been called vicious names….
I stumbled upon Fool’s Mountain is because I am a political junkie and you guys have great conversations without resorting to insults to each other.. which that I find refreshing.. that’s why I was curious on whta you guys thought…
I appreciate your views 😀
November 23rd, 2008 at 1:46 am
miaka, let me ask you a question. When you are not online but just in your normal life, do you catch any grief for dating your boyfriend? Is it only on the net? Lots of people write things on the net that you’d never hear in a normal setting. In fact, most of the guys who write them have nothing better to do than to flame people online; they have no social life. With that kind of personality, it’s not hard to understand why.
I wouldn’t participate in a bigoted forum. I checked out that site on Facebook and wasn’t very impressed by the conversations; everything was pretty superficial. I’m also not sure about the UCSD reference. I’m from San Diego and know a few Chinese professors who teach there. Our nephew went there and a lot of our Asian friends. I’ll ask around to see if any of the Asian girls I know had this kind of experience while there and let you know what I find.
Most of the regulars on this blog get along very well even when we disagree. Say anything you want; just be prepared to defend what you say if you get questioned about it. All of us have had our “mea culpas” at one time or another. That’s what makes it fun.
November 23rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
@ Miaka,
Have you asked this ‘white privilege’ perception to any black Americans? I am sure they will give you some very valid answers to your question. With P.E. Obama, that perception may change soon.
@ Steve,
I like to add my observation to your #24,
I see plenty of black guys with white girls and vice versa;
Asian guys with white girls – almost always end in divorce and the kids almost always end up with the mothers (seen from personal friends lives);
I have a Hong Kong friend who married and divorced a Hispanics girl; they have 2 or 3 children. He is now married to a black girl with three children and at the ripe old age of 47, became a grand father to a Hispanics/Chinese/Black grandson. None of his children has any Asiatic trace.
The children of bi-racial couples (in this case, a Caucasian being the father or mother) tend to gravitate toward the white parent;
I have yet to see a white/ asian couple in their 60’s and the marriage IS their first.
It is almost always the white guys are older and divorced, and the asian brides are almost always highly educated.
To admin,
what is this edit button for if one’s post is published for all to read while one is still trying to edit? It is like trying on your shirts in a department’s store changing room with the door open.
November 23rd, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Hi Dan~
I think I can explain the edit button. I’m like Jerry; usually write outside this page, then copy and paste into if after I’ve reviewed what I’ve written. But sometimes after I’ve posted and are reading what I wrote, I’ll see a mistake in spelling or punctuation and get in quickly to change it. So for me it’s more of a “correcting a mistake” type of edit.
I know two couples of an Asian guy with a white girl. One is my uncle, but he is Japanese American and born here (actually born in one of the internment camps during WWII). They’ve been married for at least 35 years.
My wife’s cousin’s son is a doctor in Phoenix and his wife is white and from Pennsylvania. They’ve been married for around 5 years, so not up to the “seven year itch” yet but pretty close. They seem to get along fine.
Of our kids, the one that looks most “white” hangs pretty much in white culture. I’m not sure if any of his current friends are Asian. The younger one who has more of an Asian look but probably pretty close to half and half has friends from all over the world. He’s most like me in personality and as far as dating, I’d say he was colorblind. He’s been in quite a few different countries and has my knack for travel.
Last night we were at a dinner with a whole bunch of mixed Asian/American couples. Many of them have been married for over 20 years and it’s their first marriage. Some have been married over 40 years. Interestingly and maybe this addresses one of your points, there isn’t much of an age disparity in the couples. My wife is actually older than I am and most others are within 3-5 years. Virtually all are well educated on both sides. Your example of the older, divorced white guy with the younger asian girl is probably true; I just don’t see those couples much.
Funny story: We were at a New Year’s Eve dinner and dance for the year 2000, mostly with Chinese or Taiwanese couples. One of the older Chinese guys brings along his girlfriend. She was amuch younger blonde, very busty babe from Texas. He was this old, rich, not too goodlooking guy. That was the night I taught my wife the expression “arm candy”. 😛
Anyway, you should have seen the Asian women’s looks. Daggers were shooting from their eyes whenever they glanced over at her. I think my wife was the only woman who treated her nicely. My guess is that they didn’t want their husbands to get any ideas. I’m sure he was using her and she was using him and they broke up eventually. But it was funny to see the reaction.
Oh, I’ve heard it said in Shanghai (by girls) that a girl should date a guy at least 4 years older than she is since women mature faster than men. I also noticed that in general, age disparity was not a big deal in China; much less of a factor than in the USA.
November 24th, 2008 at 12:15 am
I remember there were a lot of negative News about the sudden influx of Asians to North America back in the 80s. First it was the Vietnamese refugees. Hong Kong was the first port of entry for many of them. Working with an NGO back then , I made friends with quite a few of these refugees. I’d always thought they were best suited for HK but 90% of them wanted to go to the West.
A HK buddy of mine used to live in Alhambra, LA back in the early 90s. It was interesting that the week that stayed with him, I didn’t speak a word of English nor had a single western meal. I saw many familiar retired and some active HK movie and TV actors. I thought at the time that, hey, I sure could get use to this. This was almost 2 decades ago, though. The same is true in Richmond, in Vancouver BC, Canada.AKA HongCouver.
A good friend of mine, a well travelled Irish American, and his Chinese wife have just moved to San Gabriel Valley, LA from another sunshine state, and here’s an article he sent me.
Asian American communities in the San Gabriel Valley:
The Japanese Americans were the first Asians to settle in the San Gabriel Valley of Los Angeles, such as in East LA, Montebello and Monterey Park. Many primarily English-speaking Japanese Americans, mostly Sansei, did not have much of an affinity for the newly-arrived Chinese-speaking Taiwanese immigrants. Nowadays, many Japanese Americans have assimilated with the general population and their population numbers have greatly declined in the San Gabriel Valley. Many of these Japanese Americans have since moved on to Orange County and Little Tokyo.
Given the San Gabriel Valley’s burgeoning population of Asian Americans (specifically Chinese Americans), several business districts were developed to serve their needs. Hence, there are four major de facto “Chinatowns” in the Valley. This trend began during the late 1970s when many affluent Chinese professionals, mostly from Taiwan, began settling in the area. (It should be noted that the Downtown L.A. Chinatown, with predominantly blue-collar Cantonese Chinese-speaking residents, was considered unattractive to investors then and now.)
Other Mandarin Chinese-speaking immigrants of the middle and working classes from Taiwan and Mainland China later followed. Settlement in the city picked up the pace in the 1980s and in turn replaced white-owned businesses whose owners either resettled elsewhere or died. Soon, Chinese shopping centers—with supermarkets serving as anchors—were developed.
The city was also the site of xenophobia, as Chinese businesses were replacing others and Chinese-language materials began filling the local public library. Initially, many Chinese restaurateurs and business owners at the time used primarily Chinese script and not English or Romanized names on their business signs.
This changed in 1986, however, as the predominantly white members of the city council of Monterey Park enacted an ordinance forcibly requiring the Chinese businesses to translate their business signs and describe the nature of their businesses in English as well.
Nowadays, as a reflection of changing demographics, several elected Chinese Americans and Hispanics now sit on the city council.
Also, many of the public, private, and parochial schools in Monterey Park and adjacent cities like Alhambra now contain a majority of American-born Chinese students. In order to immerse – or at least acquaint – the American-born Chinese in the Chinese language, culture, and arts, Chinese language classes are often held on the weekends at these schools and other facilities. A number of such academies have cropped up in the San Gabriel Valley and also in northern California.
Monterey Park, dubbed “New Chinatown” and “Little Taipei”is widely regarded as the premier suburban Chinese American community by the Chinese-speaking community and some social scientists alike. Ironically, just as Monterey Park became first suburban community to attain an Asian American majority in the early 1990s, many well-to-do Chinese Americans have moved out of Monterey Park and vicinity and into upscale San Gabriel Valley neighborhoods such as Arcadia, Hacienda Heights, Diamond Bar, Rowland Heights and further south and east to the distant suburbs of Irvine, Chino Hills and Corona. Thus, this led to a formation of newer Chinese American communities in the Valley and beyond. Like its Los Angeles Chinatown counterpart, Monterey Park now contains a Cantonese Chinese-speaking majority. Interestingly, Diamond Bar is a sister city of Sanhsai, Taiwan.
In the late 1980s and 1990s, impressive shopping centers developed throughout the San Gabriel Valley. For instance, in Alhambra, an old 1950s-era carhop diner was purchased and converted into a Chinese seafood restaurant in the late 1980s (it has changed hands several times). In San Gabriel, a Chinese hypermarket and strip mall replaced a shuttered Target store. In the 1990s, a Rowland Heights bowling alley was demolished and was replaced by an indoor shopping center containing several Chinese restaurants and chic boutiques.
The large Chinese American supermarket chain 99 Ranch Market — based in Buena Park, California — operates several locations in these Chinese American communities. Battling for market share are its chief competitors of the smaller, albeit growing, chains of San Gabriel Valley-based Hong Kong Supermarket and Shun Fat Supermarket (the flagship stores of both chains are located in Monterey Park). These three supermarket chains often operate within the vicinity of each other.
Another ethnic enclave is the Filipino American business district of Little Manila, which consists of a few strip malls and two supermarkets (including the Filipino chain Seafood City). It is located on Azusa Avenue and Amar Road in West Covina along with an Asian indoor and outdoor shopping center that replaced a Ralph Supermarket couple miles away from Little Manila located on Glendora Avenue caters to Chinese Indonesian with minority groups of Taiwanese, Thai, Burman, and Vietnamese.”
November 24th, 2008 at 1:19 am
@Hongkonger: That’s a pretty accurate article. We’ve lived in San Diego since 1990 and used to go up to Monterey Park sometimes for the food, plus my wife’s cousin lived in Arcadia and had an office in Monterey Park right on Atlantic Ave. These days, the better place to go is Rowland Heights. The food is better; the place is newer, nicer and more upscale.
In San Diego, we have a neighborhood called Mira Mesa. There are many Filipinos there so they call it Manila Mesa. When I was in the real Manila and told people I was from San Diego, they immediately asked me if I knew about Mira Mesa.
Westminster is called Little Saigon, but the Vietnamese food quality isn’t as good as it used to be. Chinatown in LA is just north of downtown; not very big and not very nice. I was surprised the first time I was there. San Francisco is the same; the Chinatown isn’t very good for food. The best stuff is definitely in the ‘burbs.
The Chinese Women’s Club in San Diego once had the ex Mayor of Monterey Park as a speaker. I usually don’t attend but I did for that one since I like politics. I was hoping she’d explain to the mostly immigrant audience about how politics works here, what the differences are between parties and inside parties, etc. Ended up she was just a Democrat shill and wanted everyone to think of themselves as Asian Americans and not Chinese Americans. I remember the lady sitting next to me asking if I realized I was the only non-Chinese person in the hall. I was friends with at least half the people there so I hadn’t noticed at all. 🙂
November 25th, 2008 at 4:10 am
I am a male of mainland Chinese stock with a Swedish wife of Scandinavian stock, living in the States. We’ve been together for more than 12 years and have a handsome 9-year old boy. Meeting my wife is the best thing that ever happened to my life.
The different race and cultural stuff can be interesting, but at the end of the day, you judge your date/partner by the content of his/her character, not by the skin tone or where s/he is from. At the same time, one does not date a person just to prove a point to his/her peers. If that is the riding factor, it is doomed to fail and you will get hurt, and may even turn bitter toward the culture that you date is from.
Best wishes to you miaka9383!
PS. Sorry for the typo in the title. It should be 中瑞友好!
November 25th, 2008 at 4:28 am
@中瑞友好: Welcome to FM! Your comment is very appreciated and I completely agree with everything you said. Congratulations on marrying your dream girl. 🙂
November 25th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
@ 中瑞友好
欢迎您!
November 26th, 2008 at 12:25 am
Steve, 中瑞友好…
I think You guys are among the luckiest people. I have a few very smart (even very rich) friends whom in their 40s have not discovered/found/ran into someone they “can’t live without,” and has to marry as their mates for life.
In China, marriage is a duty that one must perform and achieve by certain age. For female, the pressure is on between 18-25 and for guys perhaps not older than 28. But of course the numbers are rapidly changing. In fact my numbers are obsolete in urban areas. Urban Chinese are dating more and marrying much later, while the rural culture remains relatively static.
My parents wanted to make sure I didn’t worry about marriage until I was in my 30s. Life indeed is often hard to control no matter how one insists on being the “Captain of ones life,” there are much greater forces to put one down. One such natural forces is love.
Speaking of which, I was checking out Taylor Swift on youtube, a talented song writer and triple platinium country singer. She is a beautiful southern belle, a good singer and writes good songs, but after about 5 songs I got tired of the same subject – romantic love, and it’s related themes. I used to like country songs because they were good at telling stories and in serenating nature….
November 26th, 2008 at 2:47 am
Here is a biological perspective on why some couples can maintain the spark for years.
August 29th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
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