Some rabid Falun Gong followers show their ugly side in Flushing, NY
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Case in point, there are reports of FLG followers publicly cheering the Sichuan earthquake as a karmic response from heaven on the Chinese Communist Party. ESWN provided a translation of a report from Ming Pao dated May 21, 2008:
The confrontation between Queens county residents and the FLG practitioners is now on its fourth day …
Yesterday at 10am, several dozen FLG member appeared in front of the Flushing Public Library. Just like the past three days before, they unfurled banners that pronounced “The Heavens destroy the Chinese Communists,” “Experts sent Sichuan earthquake prediction report confidentially to authorities” and so on to show the passer-bys. Some of the FLG members said that they have been criticising the Chinese Communist regime and they thought that the Sichuan earthquake revealed the evil nature of the Chinese Communists. Some FLG members even said that the Sichuan earthquake was the result of the violent rule of the Chinese Communists.
…
The New Voice also had an entry. Please note that some FLG supporters disputed the nature of the confrontation in the comment section. I find it difficult, however, to interpret the “天滅中共” (Heaven is destroying the CCP) signs so prominently displayed by the FLG protesters as anything other than their perspective on the Sichuan earthquake. This understanding is further supported by another commenter and eye witness named
… I live in Jamaica, New York, about two miles from the Flushing library where the protest took place and this report originated. I can absolutely confirm that the Falun Gong practitioners were gleeful about the earthquake. It was a pretty stupid thing for the FG to do. There were lots of angry people in the streets; angry at the Falun Gong for kicking China when its down. Who can blame them. It was a boneheaded thing to do.
I won’t bother to argue it is wrong and despicable to invoke God or heaven in explaining the happening of the Sichuan earthquake as many have already touched on this topic. (e.g. see “What have they done to deserve this?” at Sun Bin) As Mr. Hillgardner put it, “it was a pretty stupid thing for the FLG to do.”
Perhaps there could be a silver lining to this event. Surely there would be a large number of reports in the newspapers of this multi-day and ongoing confrontation involving large number of people and police in New York, which is one of the best covered regions in the world, news media wise. And maybe, just maybe, some of the habitual criticizers of China would read about such behaviors of the rabid FLG followers, look into their beliefs and acts, and take a more nuanced view of CCP vs. FLG in the future. Right?
However, this is not going to happen since they won’t be able to read about it anywhere, except, on the Epoch Times, which happens to be the propaganda arm of the FLG and where this confrontation is described as another case of CCP paid agents harrasing peaceful FLG protesters. Seriously, try typing in “Falun Gong Flushing” or some other variations in the Google News Search and see what you get.
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May 22nd, 2008 at 4:35 am
FLG do get lots of kind hearted people beleive FLG practicer in China get executed just because of the belief and their organ get harvested. many reads and believes the stories on
Epoch Times.
FLG is well financed and organized but certainly not by Li HongZhi.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:45 am
Don’t forget the Youtube video also linked from ESWN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y78iaMm2I7s
Most of those interviewed are saying things along the lines of … “FLG is inhumane, they actually banged on gongs and celebrated the earthquake on Saturday”.
I do not have much opinion about FLG as a “religion”, because I’m not educated on the spiritual aspects. But I will say my personal experience with its political activities in the years after the Communist crackdown has just been… disgusting, disturbing.
I personally know some FLG practictioners, a few of whom are active in the movement itself. I know they’re not evil people, and they might fervently believe that what they’re doing is appropriate as a way of fighting back against the Communist government… but their methods have failed. They’ve done more to turn the Chinese community against them than anything Beijing could do.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:52 am
FLG practitioners’ unpalatable speech does not in any way improve the CCP’s case for outlawing FLG in China. Is that what you are trying to suggest by a “silver lining?” When you say, people should “look into their beliefs,” do you mean that if the “west” just knew more it would concur that they are in fact an “evil cult” as labeled by the CCP? I have found FLG practitioners to be a bit out there, but they have shown nothing that in any way merits the persecution that has been their lot in the last ten years. What more nuance do you want than that? By the way, thanks for your attempt to break their monopoly on media coverage of the incident.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:07 am
for me ,the video just shows the anti-CCP and pro-CCP protesters
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:22 am
“some of the FLG followers make it really difficult to sympathize with their cause.”
As if you sympathized with their cause before this incident… fangpi!
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:44 am
Mr. Ma,
Please note that I purposely didn’t take a position on Chinese government’s treatment of FLG in this entry.
Similar to Buxi, I have nothing against FLG as a religion per se. But I am put off by actions of some of their more fervent believers outside of China. Some of the things are merely “amusing”, such as their claim that more than 35 million, and counting, CCP members have quit as the result of their campaign. Some of the things are not exactly laughing matters. Have you heard of their insistent but discredited charge that the CCP systematically arrested, tortured and harvested organs from FLG practitioners in China.
So by “silver lining” I do not mean it should or would improve CCP’s case for outlawing FLG. Rather I would like to see those “concerned” politicians, opinion makers and activists no longer treat FLG vs. CCP as a simple case of good vs. evil. I am not asking much for a “nuanced” view in this case, am I? But sadly I find such appeal actually necessary.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:28 am
Dear DJ,
I don’t give credence to the most outlandish of the FLG newspaper reports. And I don’t think much of the foreign media does either. I’ve heard about the 35 million people leaving the party, organ harvesting, etc. When the FLG press reports on those things they completely discredit themselves. The fact that they don’t recognize how foolish some of these things sound leads me in part to believe that they are a bit “out there.” The question is not whether they are pure “good” (as opposed to pure evil), but whether or not goofy but innocuous spiritual groups have a right to believe what they wish. In this sense, the CCP policy is loathsome. Wouldn’t you agree? This point, I believe, doesn’t require much nuance.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:30 am
Personal attacking is just distasteful on a blog to share views
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:51 am
overseaschinese,
You may be surprised that I do sympathize with many of the people who were caught between FLG vs. CCP.
My father-in-law told me once about a guy in his DanWei (work unit) who wasn’t in good health and joined FLG group to practice its variant of QiGong (a form of therapeutic movement, breathing, and meditation). He was heavily pressured by the bureaucrats in the DanWei to renounce FLG after the government decided to crackdown on it in 1999. He did not deserve the trouble and I sympathize with him.
I assume that there were many people in FLG for the same health consideration in the 90’s. I also assume that there were many members simply looking for spiritual guidance and found so in FLG. Frankly I see some of the teachings and believes in FLG as far fetched. But who am I to tell others what to or not to believe? Either way, they were innocents and I don’t doubt that many of them were similarly harassed. Some perhaps experienced worse. (But I simply refuse to believe the BS about them being tortured and organ harvested.) I sympathize with them.
That said, I am nevertheless disturbed by the actions and words of some more rabid FLG followers in the US I have seen or heard. With regard to this Flushing incident, I will repeat my rather understated comment: some of the FLG followers make it really difficult to sympathize with their cause.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:59 am
Mr. Ma,
In principle, I don’t disagree with you. However, I think the problem, as of today instead of 1999, is that FLG is perhaps no longer a “goofy but innocuous spiritual group” any more.
RE: “I don’t give credence to the most outlandish of the FLG newspaper reports. And I don’t think much of the foreign media does either.” But what if some of the foreign media and some of their readers do? And I suspect that it is not necessarily a small percentage.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:29 am
FLG is just an avenue for people to claim political asylum status towards getting their Green Card.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:12 am
I used to have sympathy for those FLG followers, but after the incident where they verbally attacked and maliciously slandered ordinary Chinese students in a very vicious way at LSE(London School Economics) in London, I just think they are way too crazy.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:03 am
亲爱的overseaschinese,
从您的其他留言得知您在中国教过书，应该称您为老师了。
在这里，中外人士在友好热烈的气氛中交换意见。fangpi一词显得有些突兀，有损师雅，有辱师尊。请老师明鉴。
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Of course, everyone here realizes that FLG is finance by the CIA and other secret parts of the US government so that the US can repeated site it as an issue against China, right?
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
This blog is certainly showing its panda licking colors by saying that only the FLG believes that the earthquakes are a sign that the CCP has lost the mandate from heaven.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I do sympathize with individual Falun Gong practitioners forced to give up their religion. I think the Chinese people should have the right to their faith, within legal reason. (Many Chinese are concerned with the faith-healing aspects of FLG, for example.)
There are a thousand other quirky, similar religions throughout China. I don’t like many of them on a personal basis, but I don’t think the government should deny them to the people.
But China has a great fear of organized religions, and I personally can understand why. The Taiping Rebellion wasn’t all that long ago. FLG clearly became something more than just a religious faith when it took its activism to the streets in China.
When FLG faithful show up in great numbers when ordered to harass scientists and journalists who criticize the religion (this is all before the crackdown), something is wrong. When FLG faithful show up in great numbers on the same day in order to harass government offices, something is very wrong.
In a more perfect world, in a China that has an established legal order, we could depend on the legal system to manage this. Those who break the law by assembling illegally would be charged openly and tried fairly. Those who break the law by preventing others from seeking medical help would also be charged openly and tried fairly. But that legal system doesn’t exist in China now. I think much of the ill in Chinese society can be traced back to that.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Religious nuts exist in the west and they are a nuisance. As long as laws regarding their freedom of speech and their targets’ freedom of safety and speech are equally respected and enforced there is no problem.
If Beijing wants China to be respected as a Great Power than the government and the individual people are going to have to learn to accept things they hear and don’t agree with both domestically and internationally.
Basically, the government has to stop throwing temper tantrums at home and the Chinese people have to stop throwing temper tantrums abroad.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:10 am
@nanheyangrouchuan,
I am glad to see your less angry words of “If Beijing wants China to be respected as a Great Power than the government and the individual people are going to have to learn to accept things they hear and don’t agree with both domestically and internationally” than something you posted on shanghailist like ” Burn down the Forbidden shit”
I agree with this and this has caused a lot of trouble. FLG is just one of the example. FLG people could not accept the scientist’s criticizing while the same scientist who also criticized other similar practices and FLG people massed gathered in the university and surrounded the government buildings used to be part of the buildings you shouted to burn down. And the CCP could not take FLG’s showing off like this and caused the crackdown.
CCP and many Chinese people never live in a democracy environment and have more to learn. CCP leaders educated in the 50s,60s under Soviet style system and few of them could read English and never been taught about the good western values, it’s hard for them to change over night. Taiwan’s democracy only happened after the death of Chiang Kai-shek and his son. These two were same with CCP leaders in terms of both under dictatorship or war environment and have no much ideal of democracy. Democracy has a long way to go in China and would get there by all the peaceful means but not by the violence like ” Burn down the Forbidden shit” you suggested and your ancestors did it.
putting the photo of PLA soldiers disguised as Tibetan monks on the front page might be creative but not very constructive criticizing to CCP or some Chinese people you hate.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:22 am
Dont be riducluas Falun Gong would never cheer the deaths of any person. This is an outright lie ognasied by teh Ccp to attack FAlun Gong’s good reputation. No one in teh west wiht a free mind would beleive that. Instead read this..
CCP interferes and urges Chinese nationalist to attack Falun Gong peaceful appeals outside of China
Peaceful Rally Attacked in New York City’s Chinatown
Chinese regime believed to order attack
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-19/70825.html
“The attack on the rally seems to have been coordinated with Chinese-language media that are controlled or influenced by the CCP. These media outlets, such as CCTV, ordinarily do not cover rallies held to urge people to quit the CCP.
On Saturday, these media outlets were present in force. Immediately after the event ended, they published and broadcast stories whose themes were that the participants in this rally “do not care about the victims of the Sichuan earthquake” and “do not love China.”
Witnesses at the scene saw individuals providing drinks and Chinese flags to the crowd that gathered to oppose the rally for quitting the CCP. Other individuals worked to arrange the scene to provide CCTV with good opportunities for filming.”
Organized Crowds in Chinatown Repeatedly Harass ‘Quit CCP’ Center
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-20/70827.html
Chinese Regime Tries to Quash Dissent in New York’s Chinatown, Say Activists http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-21/70866.html
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-21/70877.html
Overseas Chinese Students Harass Quit CCP Center in Japan
This was printed in the CCTV news in China a few days ago.
http://news.wenxuecity.com/messages/200805/news-gb2312-605101.html
Please view part translation of an article from CCP media spreading inside China. This has been forwarded to New York Police and other authorities for further investigation and possible evidence to stop these interferences in peaceful FG appeals outside of China.
This attack in Flushing, with the interpretation given it by regime-influenced Chinese-language media, appears to be an attempt to play on the strong feelings evoked by the disastrous earthquake in Sichuan in order to stigmatize opposition to the Chinese regime.
CCTV Article
“Global Times report: When many overseas Chinese were in sorrow of the Wenchuan earthquake and collecting donations, FLG people held a series of gathering in New York, trying to stop local Chinese communities and groups to collect donations for the earthquake. Many local Chinese were very angry.
According to a US Chinese website report, on 17th, FLG gathered in front of Flushing library in New York, in the event of earthquake in China, many Chinese people died or injured, FLG people betting drums, and saying that the disaster is related to politics of China.. Passers bys who was donating money can not forbear this and more and more people gathered there and protect to them. Two days later, FLG gathered in the same place again. People gathered and protect once more. The Chinese people at the site said that in the disaster of the nation, FLG want to link the disaster with politics, we Chinese people can not accept it. Chinese people shout out loud ” Go China” etc. Many people can not hold their anger and speak out to denounce FLG, they said even they’re all Chinese, but FLG didn’t donate money, on the contrary, the said these words, this is totally contradict to their ZSR. This is unacceptable to all Chinese people.”
Falun Gong were not stopping people from donating to the earthquake victims. In fact we were holding our Tuidang site and encouraging people to quit the Ccp. About 400 Chinese nationalists surrounded the group at Flushing in NY and began to swear and hit out at the FG. The Chinese nationalists have become emboldened from the protesting at Olympic Torch relays and the Ccp playing other anger at the loss of their families life from the earthquake. Please see Falun Dafa Info Centre from NY
Aftershocks: Chinese Mobs Incited to Attack Falun Gong in New York, Elsewhere
http://www.faluninfo.net/downloads/FDI_Press/FDI-080521-FL.htm
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:42 am
@Jana,
glad to see you are here.
Are you able to approve your claims on Richard Spencer’s blog are true? So I can learn more about the evil CCP.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/foreign/richardspencer/march2008/tibetbiascutsbothways.htm#comments
Sorry I cross quote your words without your permission. I can request site admin to remove them if you don’t like I grab your words here
—————Jana’s post starts—————
Is there a regime more ghastly than that of the People’s Republic of China?
Jana 30 Mar 2008 06:43
Is there any other government that so systematically suppresses all religious liberty, erecting religious bureaucracies to which believers are required to belong in order to worship?
Is there any other regime that still imprisons and kills bishops, priests and monks who fail to swear loyalty to the state?
Is there any other country where the entire population is subject to child-bearing control, with forced sterilization and abortions for those who decline to submit to state rules on family size?
Is there any other regime that executes thousands of its citizens annually, the majority for the crime of challenging the ruling party?
Is there any other country accused (by credible sources) of executing the Falun Gong and harvesting their organs and selling them? Is there any other regime more dependable in its support of the worst kind of evil around the world (Darfur)?
Even the vile regimes in Saudi Arabia, Cuba, North Korea and Zimbabwe do not compare to China across the breadth of its human rights violations.
The question is whether China’s size and growing prosperity mean that all this has to be ignored. The answer the world has given has generally been yes. There is business to be done, and political leaders are there to facilitate that, human rights be damned.
So dont tell me the western media is biased and hates China because they have all being ignoring these violations up to date.
The Ccp will fall, its terminally ill and in its death throws.
————Jana’s post ends—————–
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:00 am
do you guys want to write something regarding ’spiritual movement’?
i mean, FLG regard themselves as a religion (or qigong group, i don’t know). dl lama and his followers definitely see themselves as buddhists.
yet the Mainstream media stubbornly insist to classify them as ’spiritual movement’. i was puzzled every time i see this word. a friend suggested the MSM (or people from these ‘movements’) may want to make this more acceptable the christian majority in the western world? maybe you guys can do some research on this.
what is the real difference between a religion, a sect, and a ‘movement’?
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:06 am
sun bin,
I don’t hav time for that, I’m still trying to find out the Western media’s definition of a “peaceful protest”…
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:12 am
@ shannxibiangbiangmian
I feel all warm and fuzzy inside now. But the picture of the PLA soldiers in Tibetan monk robes stays. Just because CCTV says it is a something else means nothing and in fact reinforces the theory. Especially when CCTV was there to film “monks” knocking down the doors of Han businesses. How convenient.
The picture of Mao certainly needs to burn, and his tomb as well.
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:26 am
BIng Ma, Please see these sites as they will show you what the real nature of the communist regime is.
Links to Why is Falun Gong persecuted in China?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynqyI5s3WoM&feature=related
An Independent Investigation into Allegations of Harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners in China
http://organharvestinvestigation.net/
Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong in China (CIPFG
http://www.cipfg.org/en/
Falun Gong Human Rights Working Group
http://www.flghrwg.net/
The Falun Dafa Information Centre
http://faluninfo.net/
Falun Gong “Disappearing by Thousands”
by Georgianne Neiaber
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/georgianne-nienaber/beijing-olympics-is-us-su_b_95934.html
Here is a site on what is Falun Gong AKA Falun Dafa
http://www.falundafa.org/eng/home.html
Here is an independent verification and study from Professor Ownby
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~tnchina/commentary/ownby1000.html
Misconceived thoughts about Falun Gong
http://www.david-kilgour.com/2008/Mar_21_2008_03.htm
Staged False Immolation in Tiananmen Square exposed –
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/special_column/self-immolation.html
Gao Zhisheng’s third open letter to Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/5-12-16/35876.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070921/NATION/109210069
http://en.epochtimes.com/211,107,,1.html
Falun Gong Humanity’s Last Stand
http://www.falunhr.org/newsletter/TheLastStand.pdf
YOu might like to also read The Epoch Times book “The Nine Commentaries” which is an expose of the last 60 years of communist rule in China with 80 million un-natural deaths of Chinese people by the communist regime.
This book has been responsible for 37 million resignations from the ccp and its affiliated organisations since 2004.
http://ninecommentaries.com/
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:34 am
sun bin,
You certainly made an interesting suggestion. Coincidentally, I was just reading up the discussion of the term “cult” on Wikipedia an hour ago because of the same thought. I probably won’t be able to write anything on this though, given how big this project seems to be.
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:07 am
@fenqing nanheyangrouchuan
It’s wonderful to learn from you about “Just because CCTV says it is a something else means nothing and in fact reinforces the theory. Especially when CCTV was there to film “monks” knocking down the doors of Han businesses. How convenient.”
You would be many ’s hero and would write the history if you just go to Tiananmen and burn Mao’s picture and tomb. just make some petrol bomb and put them into your backpack would do the historical mission.
I’ll be always here and waiting for your moment.
May 23rd, 2008 at 5:14 pm
@ fenqing shannxibiangbiangmian
Anything I can do to broaden your mind! And that one was free btw.
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Enough already. No more personal sniping back and forth. We’re here to discuss China, not nanheyangrouchuan. Any more gets deleted.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Jana,
You links are meaningless and full of lies, who the @#$% believe Epoch ? a complete joke !
Think of that, a religion that can make people forget his/her nationality, Is that a religion anymore ? it is just a brainwashing machine.
Human Right ? give me a break, your so called religion wont allow any doubt, let alone criticism.
You can keep bashing chinese government which is supported by 99% of the chinese, dont foolishly argue about that. The earthquake proved how much people believe in these government : people in misery just sat there and waited for the help of PLA and government.
Keep spouting those BS, no Chinese give a F#$%.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:48 pm
BTW, I live in New York, The story is 100% true. did you see the balloons in the tape ? WTF did those goner need balloons for ?
The other day, one Falun goner even asked the organizer of donation group why he collected money for CCP.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Buxi makes me feel not so special…
May 24th, 2008 at 6:40 am
Re Ha Ha,
you said “The other day, one Falun goner even asked the organizer of donation group why he collected money for CCP.”
Here is why the Falun Gong practitoenr asked you this question.
Question :Ask you self why the rich and famous people in China have not given as generously as the poor people in China?
Answer: The rich people know where the money is going—into the pockets of the corrupted Ccp.
Distrust Over Donated Relief Funds
Voice of America
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-22/70909.html
Chinese writer and critic Zhao Dagong said he believes there is a reason behind the negligible donations from billionaires, and the Chinese state-controlled media would not dare to expose it.
“I don’t think China’s billionaires aren’t willing to donate. The question is to whom should the donations be made? Will this money get to the disaster victims? Can China set up civilian charitable organizations? The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) monopolizes charitable organizations. Since all these donations have been made to it [the CCP], how will it be spent when the CCP is rife with corrupted officials?”
Mr. Zhao said that he and his colleagues had made donations for disaster relief; but he wasn’t sure how much of the monies would actually get to the victims. He said that even if one tenth of their donations reach the people in need he would consider that good.
Hong Kong Chi Heng Foundation Secretary Du Cong said that many Chinese felt compelled to make a donation after seeing news reports about the crisis, but whether they will continue to make donations depends on how the money is used.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Jana,
Dont give me the Epoch crap.
I visited Epoch website once and only once in March, it makes me vomit.
In a group of picture in Tibet in March, two pictures were obviously taken at the same place, but Epoch claimed one was in Lhasa, the other in Gansu.
A letter published on Epoch, by a “dissident” to US congress, claimed that Chinese want human right, not Olympic, WTF ?
BTW, Falun goners have been celebrating in Flushing, NY everyday since last week. Humanity ? BS !!!
May 25th, 2008 at 1:57 am
Jana if you think that praising the deaths of fifty thousand and blaming china which is thousands of miles away for the protests against you’re cult then there is a really big problem here. Epoch times and NTDTV is from falun gong members so i wouldn’t even trust them.
I don’t know what you and your cult was trying to prove in Flushing by saying about how china didn’t care about their people, you probably haven’t seen the PLA struggling to find survivors in sichuan. But the hundreds of chinese young and old didn’t act kind to your lies in the week.
May 25th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I have just returned to the US from China. I was in Chengdu during the earthquke and assisted with rescue and recovery efforts in Beichuan and a refugee camp in Xiaoba and a what used to be a small villige nearby. Before the FLG continues to crow about the Chinese government they should be thinking about the innocent victims, the dead children and the millions without homes. I will remember the trucks full of body bags coming out of the Beichuan school for the rest of my life. Hopefully I will remember FLG not at all.
May 25th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Chris Tuey,
Thank you for the assistance in Sichuan. Please accept a bow from me.
I think I speak for many on this blog that we very much would like to have had a chance to lend a hand literally, and are truly appreciative to the people who were there to help.
Please also share your story with us more.
May 26th, 2008 at 1:50 am
CHINA EARTHQUAKE TRIBUTE
A photographic record of nature’s fury, and my deepest heartfelt wish for the Chinese people.
http://atruechineserenaissance.blogspot.com/
May 26th, 2008 at 4:29 am
I am looking on Internet to see how Christian reacts to the disaster, and especially how they think why God lets people suffer. I know many Christians are helping, but the theory about why God let people suffer seems to claim something beyond my understanding. Falun Gong practioners claim it is a Karma on innocent people due to the guilty of party they hate, which is absolutely stupid. As far as I know, Falun Gong organization is not donating or rescuing.
May 26th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Chris Tuey,
“I will remember the trucks full of body bags coming out of the Beichuan school for the rest of my life. Hopefully I will remember FLG not at all.”
Yes, FLG will become falun gone and gone away.
May 26th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Anonymous,
falun gone people not only do not donate one cent but they are trying to brainwash kind people with “compassion” not to help those Sichuan earthquake disaster victims because of their bizzare belief – “the karma retribution of CCP”. However, their brainwash system is not effective and instead backfire badly like they have just created the “bad karma” for the falun gone.
I feel sorry for those people who got brainwashed by the ‘devil in fake buddha suit LHZ and the gang’ to do all the FLG propaganda work to bring suffering to themselves unless they are awaken to their consciousness and repent all those wrong intentions.
May 26th, 2008 at 8:37 am
Jana,
Why LHZ didn’t come out and prevent the disaster from happening like he did with Earth collision? Are you telling me, he told god to attack Sichuan? I believe he said before that he is always talking to other gods not to interfere but this time I guess they cooperate together?
May 26th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
@Jana,
you see people don’t beleive The Epoch Times here. I don’t know what reasons behind them.
I believe the what The Epoch Times says about culture revolution and 1989. my parents had first hand experience with culture revolution and I participated 1989.
But many stories about these days are just untrue(some are true). I don’t know why FLG use the culture revolution style words on every story on The Epoch Times to abuse CCP. The Epoch Times bashes CCP for everything CCP dose and for everything bad happens in China. When there is slave labor, that’s CCP’s fault. When CCP made labor law to protect workers rights and some forien invested factories closed down because of higher labor cost. FLG laughed and blamed CCP again.
I just don’t buy this kind of probganda and lies.spreading hatred dose not serve things well.
I’ve been reading The Epoch Times every week for years but just as entertainment and I’ll be still reading your paper as entertainment.
I would suggest you don’t waste your time and try to convince people here at this stage. You might be marketing in the wrong market.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:13 am
A key issue about the persecution of Falun Gong is whether it is religious persecution, as outsiders have labeled it. It is not. Clearly, the organization is being shut down for its political activities, specifically its anti-government and anti-Party activities. That isn’t any better, but the distinction is worth bearing in mind. In fact, this is the case with many so-called religious rights issues in China. The government can care less about some harmless cult (which Falun Gong is, but there are others), but it does not tolerate well groups that use religion to advance some political agenda, be it overthrowing the government, or separatism.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Jana,
There was a parade by about 2000 Falun goners in Manhattan Chinatown on Sunday. Please tell us how on earth that was “heartfelt wish”.
http://sinovision.net/news.php?act=details&col_id=6&news_id=46435
and about your link,
That was a extremely stupid letter, What ? those protests against Falun goners were organized by Chinese government ? they didnt even have a loud speaker !!
May 28th, 2008 at 1:01 am
Dear Ha Ha,
New York Times printed this story about the crfimes of hatse against Falun Gong in New York by Chinese rent a crowd mobsters.
2 -3 chinese nationlists have been arrested already for crimes of hate and violence agasint Falun Gong. NO FAlun Gong practioners have been arrested and nor will we ever.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/nyregion/26falun.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion
&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
The parade was all about the beauty of Falun Gong. What is wrong about that- NOTHING in any eyes excpet the brainwashed Chinese and Ccp.PLease stop your lies now for a a good future Ha Ha.
May 28th, 2008 at 2:05 am
Dear Jana,
I am asking you a simple question : how on earth is that “heartfelt wish” ?
Now suppose one week after Katrina, Westboro Baptist Church had organized a parade like this, what would Americans people think ?
Here is the tape of the parade, see for yourself.
http://sinovision.net/news.php?act=details&col_id=3&news_id=46364
How on earth did NYTime not inteview those pro-china protestors ?
When Falun goners claimed they cared about victims in the earthquake, an obvious question would be “what Falun organization has done for the victim?” Why didnt reporters ask that question ?
Oh, I seeeeeeeeeee, he knew he couldnt, as Falun has done nothing for the victims in earthquake, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !!!!
It couldnt be more obvious that the reporter tried to mislead the American people.
You know China had double digit growth in last 10 years, right ? It is very simple to prove NYTimes is unbiased about China :
Just show me an article by New York that said something positively about China. Can you ?
May 28th, 2008 at 2:38 am
How about putting up a pic of their sign and have a real language expert translate it.
I dont know much about FG, but it is distrubing that the Chinese Communists can get a group to come out and attack dissidents.
May 28th, 2008 at 3:09 am
Ha Ha, I dont speak or read Chinese i am english. The link i sent to you re:Chinese earthquake tribute was produced by a Falun Gong practitioner. Did you watch it?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ip656ddj3gI
The propoganda show of the earthquake efforts to make the ccp look good is shocking enough. Those foreign journalists have sold their souls.
The annual parade was to show the Chinese people who have been victums of the brainswashing mind numbing propoganda against Falun Gong that elsewhere in the world in fact in another 80 countries all around the world that Falun Gong is good and no where else in the world is it persecuted.Only in China. Why is that Ha Ha?
The Ccp is not good if it can persecute and commit Genocide on a large amount of good people in China while slandering and spreading their lies about Falun Gong thru out the world.
To take away the fundemental rights of belief from 1.3 billion people is a crime against humanity. One day you will realise what we are doing and why.
We have the greatest wish for all Chinese to be free of the Ccp lies, persecution, corruption,and Genocides.
The Chinese media are known for having no freeom of press but are told what they can write about from the Ccp’s propoganda . And everyone knows that even most of the Chinese people.
Falun Gong Marchers Are Jeered in Chinatown by Chinese mobsters NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/nyregion/26falun.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
An open letter to the U.S. Secretary of State from the China Support Network; calls for diplomatic demarche to Communist China by John Kusumi
http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=7492
It’s about the news media by John Kusumi
http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=7464
NYPD Arrest Three More People for Assaulting Falun Gong Practitioners
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-27/71050.html
Chinese Consul General Admits to Orchestrating Mob in New York
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-24/70954.html
Freeing China from Disaster
Why the Chinese regime needed to stage a riot in Flushing NY
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-20/70842.html
Chinese media toe the survival storyline
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/chinese-media-toe-the-survival-storyline/2008/05/23/1211183103769.html
Distrust Over Donated Relief Funds VOA
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-22/70909.html
China Red Cross Officials Suspected of Embezzling Donations for Quake Victims
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-26/71039.html
The Earthquake tribute for Chinese people
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ip656ddj3gI
May 28th, 2008 at 3:34 am
Ha Ha, you ask what Falun Gong have done for Chinese people? They risk their lives everyday for the last 9 years to keep on practising and will not give in to the Ccp for they have no right to ban or commit Genocide of Falun Gong and no right to deceive the Chinese people from their basic human rights . This is what we do for you because it is right!
I ask you what the ccp did for the earthquake victims apart from orchestrate a world wide media campaign to show hoe good they were? They also orchestrated a propoganda campaign against FG to say we do not care and incited their Chinese nationalists overseas to commit hate crimes against Falun Gong.
Heres what you don’t know
The Many Unexplainable “Whys”
While a natural disaster, the earthquake brought calamity because of human errors. These human errors are not technical in nature. They are related to the issue of the CCP’s power. The CCP put concerns for its own power before the requirements for disaster rescue.
Why didn’t the CCP investigate when signs of an earthquake were first reported, but instead jumped at discrediting the information as rumors? The Sichuan government even investigated the “rumor” and publicly “dismissed the rumor” on its official website.
Why did China claim over ten years ago to have an all-weather airdrop force of over 10,000, yet no air drops were performed in the three days after the earthquake?
Why, in the critical 72 hours after the earthquake, did only 20 military jet-planes and less than 1,000 soldiers enter the epicenter in Wenchuan County?
Why did the CCP wait until the fourth day after the earthquake to bring in the world’s largest all-weather jet planes that can carry engineering equipment?
Why at the crucial juncture of the emergency rescue of heaven-bestowed human lives did the CCP refuse the entry of foreign rescue teams?
Why have so many innocent children died or been injured in the collapse of their school buildings, while regime buildings are standing safely?
Why does the Olympics have a budget of over 400 billion Yuan (US$57.4 billion), surpassing the grand total of all previous Olympic games, while the CCP is so careful with money in saving people in disasters?
Why has the CCP issued orders to maintain positive propaganda, instead of reflecting the true suffering of the people in the disaster-hit area?
And don’t say this hasn’t been done before? CCP Staging riots on Falun Gong to deflect the scorn off themselves to others. This is a great opportunity for the world’s people to see first hand how devious the ccp is and how sadly the Chinese living abroad are brainwashed. Of course the ccp would have had to pay them some money to do it but they capitalising on the anger and pain from those they lost in the earthquake.
May 28th, 2008 at 3:44 am
Haha, Jana,
I see how pathetic Falun goners are : they basically dont read anything other than the website and newspaper sponsered by Falun.
To answer one of your question :
Why did China claim over ten years ago to have an all-weather airdrop force of over 10,000, yet no air drops were performed in the three days after the earthquake ?
Two days heavy rain after earthquake, and heavy clouds.
Landslide destoried or blocked all the roads to heavily damaged area.
Keep spouting the BS IN USA, no Chinese give a F@#$ !!!
May 28th, 2008 at 3:48 am
John,
Falun goners has celebrated the earthquake in China for 10 consecutive days.
Every heard of Westboro Baptist Church ? google it.
I am happy that Chinese government kicked Falun out of China. It would be a disaster for China and billions of Chinese if Falun had become a political power in China.
May 28th, 2008 at 4:05 am
To Jana,
I missed your other post,
Anyone who said anything good about chinese government sold their soul to CCP, that is FLG’s logic, am I right ?
That is why NYT didnt have any positive report about China, right ?
Dont even bother to type so much, I live 10 minutes from Flushing, New York. What kind of cold-blood animals would cheer for the earthquake 10 days in a row ? huh ? What kind of religion would make those “chinese” showing no sympathy for those victims in their motherland?
Dont f@#$ing talk to me about brainwashing, I didnt have much opinion about your beloved cult until the earthquake.
Let me tell you, after this incident, Falun is finished among Chinese.
BTW, talking about brainwashing, here is something you would like :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2575433/I-SEE-DIFFERENT-TIBET-A-FRENCH-HOTEL-TYCOONS-BIKE-TOUR
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/2008-02/15/content_6458228.htm
http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/
May 28th, 2008 at 5:16 am
here’s the taken from clearwisdom.net:
“See hate propaganda for what it is
The CCP lies and slanders Falun Gong, alleging that Falun Gong does not help with disaster relief. They instigate Chinese people to hate Falun Gong, recently employing their henchmen to instigate crowds of hundreds of people to besiege the Flushing Service Center for Quitting the CCP. People were pushing, shoving and violently attacking Falun Gong practitioners. It was strongly reminiscent of the Cultural Revolution in China. Seeing all this, Ms. Li Ailing from Washington DC said, ” I must come to New York to explain to the Chinese there the facts about Falun Gong. Many Falun Gong practitioners were very sad upon learning about the Sichuan earthquake. Falun Gong practitioners use their own ways to provide victims of the earthquake disaster with practical help.”
She explained that, “The CCP takes advantage of a national disaster to once again smear Falun Gong. Many Chinese read newspapers controlled by the CCP. All reports there are against Falun Gong. Actually, the CCP is the source of disaster for Chinese people. The CCP did not report earthquake forecasts, nor did it warn citizens so that there would have been fewer casualties. Many school buildings collapsed, but few government departments’ buildings collapsed in the earthquake. The CCP was reluctant to allow international relief support to enter. The CCP takes people for granted, and delayed efforts to save people. All of this can be seen by those willing to accept the truth. To save China, people must quit the evil CCP. ”
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
These are the reasons falun gone are pathetic.
“The CCP lies and slanders Falun Gong, alleging that Falun Gong does not help with disaster relief. They instigate Chinese people to hate Falun Gong, recently employing their henchmen to instigate crowds of hundreds of people to besiege the Flushing Service Center for Quitting the CCP.”
Chinese people hate falun gone not because of of CCP but their outpouring compassion towards Chinese in homeland and it has nothing to do with CCP’s instigation as alleged by the falun gone propaganda. As always, anyone oppose to falun gone must be sided with CCP, their extreme logic theory.
“It was strongly reminiscent of the Cultural Revolution in China.”
This is U.S.A. wake up. Anyone can assemble to counter protest peacefully but as you can see in news video, falun goners invoke the violence because their people were using cameras approaching towards and sticking up to the earthquake sympathetic protesters. They know they can create sensational news to provoke angers so they can claim “see I told you so”.
Ms. Li Ailing from Washington DC said, “Falun Gong practitioners use their own ways to provide victims of the earthquake disaster with practical help.”
Hmmm. what is their practical help?
Then she said, “Many Chinese read newspapers controlled by the CCP. All reports there are against Falun Gong. Actually, the CCP is the source of disaster for Chinese people. The CCP did not report earthquake forecasts, nor did it warn citizens so that there would have been fewer casualties. Many school buildings collapsed, but few government departments’ buildings collapsed in the earthquake. The CCP was reluctant to allow international relief support to enter. The CCP takes people for granted, and delayed efforts to save people. All of this can be seen by those willing to accept the truth. To save China, people must quit the evil CCP. ”
The only newspaper and TV news that are not CCP influence is “epochtimes” and “NTD TV” because it’s under CIA influence.
Like U.S. can forecast earthquake for 1994 Nortridge earthquake or look at what has the prediction like “California Has More Than 99% Chance Of A Big Earthquake WIthin 30 Years, Report Shows”. (source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080414203459.htm)
Show me the pictures of government building in the epicenter and I will believe you.
China allowed rescue workers and aids from Japan,Singapore,Russia,U.S. – where has she been? I think China should allow Li Hongzhi and all falun gones to return to China as rescue workers. Will they return is the question.
You can never win when you argue with falun goners because their ego is so hugh and they couldn’t hear a word, their heart is so cold and their eyes are spinning with falun at a dizzing spell and can’t see any truth except evil Li and the gang’s order.
May 28th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
The Chinese Consul General for New York City, Mr. Peng Keyu, was recorded by an investigator for the World Organization to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong as he admitted that he had “encouraged” the mobs in Flushing.
You can visit this website for further details: http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-24/70954.html
The Consul General says, “I have always gone to them and thanked them in person.” He continues, “I ran other things on the scene.”
The Consul General admits in that conversation that he is playing on the passions generated among the Chinese people by the Sichuan earthquake.
The Chinese-language media controlled by the Chinese regime have thrown a match on these combustible feelings by reporting that Falun Gong practitioners in Flushing have interfered with the collection of earthquake relief and are against China—although those media reports do not have a single piece of evidence to back up their claims.
Source: http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-28/71101.html
As for the CCP’s claims of, “Falun Gong adherents are happy about the Sichuan earthquake,” Mike Hu, who is working in Flushing pointed out, “Such sayings probably come from someone with an axe to grind.”
Hu continued, “I did not see that Falun Gong adherents were against providing disaster relief or gloating over China’s disaster. It is an error in logic to talk about the two topics together. Many people are wrong that Falun Gong practitioners were happy about the earthquake, disagreed with sending relief to the disaster area and hoped that China would have bad luck.”
“Please take a careful look at their banners—’The Gods bless the Chinese nation.’ The Chinese nation includes all Chinese people. So everyone should take a look or they will be fooled again. It is sad for us, the common people, to be fighting each other again as if it was the Cultural Revolution. Our Chinese nation has gone through too many disasters. I hope everyone will finally live a happy life.”
Source: http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-5-27/71050.html
May 28th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Jan,
I’ve gone to the above link and listened to the recording, and I encourage others to do the same. You can compare it to the English translation.
And the result is precisely why so many Chinese have become increasingly disgusted with the Falun Gong. The article is a clear twist on the consul-general’s words.
The consul-general, in the spirit of full disclosure (apparently thinking the caller is someone he can trust?), admits that he gives “signals” to the overseas Chinese organizations about key issues. But even with a trusted caller, he doesn’t say anything about “organizing” the protests. He only says he personally thanked the overseas Chinese groups who’ve led the protests, and that he believes one of his important responsibilities is making sure overseas Chinese groups feel a part of the Chinese community.
All of this boils down to the Chinese community having had enough of the Falun Gong’s message. Saying “God Destroys the Chinese Communists” in the aftermath of an earthquake that killed 80,000 people has successfully unleashed the fury of a whole community that’s usually very passive.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
source: http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/thread-1904-1-1.html
what i learn on the western media
A devastating disaster came!
We won’t be defeated.
The western media remains silence when they withnessed our government’s quick action and perfect relief aid!
While some of them still misunderstood China and its government.They accused that it was unfair that China turned
down their request of coming to China to do some commentary report.
When I heard this news,I was quite striking.I know that you western people consider life as everything.How can you
commented that China had done wrong.
As we all know,every minute counts,even in rescuing time.I don’t know why can you come up with such a foolish question.
You said that you have the rights to report the truth. But you don’t have the rights to add burdens to the government there.
Chinese government now focus on rescuing people who are still suffering.They have no time for your visit and have no extra
hand to protect you.
Please think of others before thinking of yourself.If you can’t,you can’t be a real journalist or reporter,cause your purpose
is very simple,which is money or others.
All in all, I am not going to against the western media.It’s their fault,not mine.I needn’t to be angry about those lies.It’s no use.
What I going to do is to protect and construct my country.And we’ll be stronger and stronger.
At last,welcome to Beijing!
May 28th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Crying Nurse Guides Rescue Team
http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/thread-1917-1-1.h
May 28th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Source: http://www.gmw.cn/01gmrb/2008-05/17/content_775470.htm
“I won’t have you saying that!”
“I won’t have you saying that!” (Liu Jun, Guangming Correspondent, Geneva, 2008-05-17 07:37, source: GuangMing Daily) 【Translation】ltbriar “I won’t have you saying that!” Marie Heuzé, the Director of the United Nations Information Service in Geneva, today rebutted certain Western reporter criticism on China’s quake relief based on the so-called “Freedom of the Press”. The attack by severe earthquake in Wenchuan area of China receives strong concerns from the World. Swift and effective relief efforts by the Chinese Government also gained international approval and a lot of media applauded “China impressed the World”. Yet in midst of Chinese people’s heavily involved in their relief work, certain Western reporter tied the so-called “Freedom of the Press” with China’s relief work over a regular Press Briefing in UN’s Office at Geneva,Europe, but was strongly countered by the spokesperson of UN, as well as spokespersons of various UN organizations, who all highly rated China’s relief efforts. In this morning’s News Briefing, various UN organizations gave briefing over Chinese progress in its relief, and details on the joint relief efforts by UN and China. Just when the Briefing was about to end, a Western reporter claimed that Chinese Government’s prohibiting Western media from entering the quake zone for news coverage was a violation of “the Freedom of the Press”. His comment was strongly rebutted. Marie Heuzé, the Director of the United Nations Information Service, not her usual self of being calm and nice, instantly gave a strong response, “I won’t have you saying that!” Then she explained in detail the cooperation of UN with China after Wenchuan’s quake. She emphasized that rescue effort is to save lives, an humanity emergency which should never be tied to other unrelated issues. Elizabeth Byrs, spokesperson for the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in her reddened eyes and shaken voice, commented that the rescue was a race with time; the quicker the relief team reached ground zero, the more chance of saving one more life. The prime most important mission for the first few days after the quake was to rescue lives under the debris. Chinese relief teams faced severe conditions of road blockages which disabled moving heavy equipments on site. The fact that they rushed to the sites on foot and rescued with bare hands by itself was remarkable. She stressed that the cooperation between the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs and China had been very smooth since the quake. The principle of rescue relief is to guarantee the swift mobilization of China’s own relief forces on site for emergency rescue, and China did not deny International relief efforts. Other UN spokespersons also expressed that media should be objective and fair, and should not relate humanity relief with other issues, that they will try their best in assisting Chinain its relief and rebuilding. Listening to all these voices, from the press area I raised my hand to request to speak. My request was granted and I tried to hold back my emotion to speak calmly to about a hundred reporters on the scene,”I have to give this uninformed inquirer a lesson of “Geography and Ethics”! China is much bigger than Europe, and the quake occurred in remote mountain areas in S.W. China. With the severe damage made by the quake, and on top of the bad weather, even Chinese relief teams were unable to be right on spot in the epic centre area. How will it be possible under such poor transport and communications conditions, that we, at the expense of saving valuable lives, allow foreign reporters unfamiliar with local condition and languages to be there first? Western media uses to claim they “cherish Life on top of everything”, don’t they? Just how could you intervene our life-saving efforts by the so-called “Freedom of the Press”?! There was a complete silence. (May 16, 2008 Guang Ming Daily, from Geneva)
「我不許你這麼說！」本報駐日內瓦記者 劉軍 發佈時間：2008-05-17 07:37 來源：光明日報「我不許你這麼說!」——聯合國新聞發言人瑪麗·厄澤女士今天嚴詞駁斥了某西方記者以所謂「新聞自由」抨擊中國抗震救災的言論。中國汶川地區遭受特大地震災害後,受到全世界的強烈關注。中國政府迅速有力的救災行動也得到了全世界的認可和讚揚,不少媒體稱讚「中國令世界感動」。然而就在中國人民頑強抗震救災的危急關頭,極個別西方記者今天卻在日內瓦聯合國歐洲辦事處舉行的新聞發佈會上,將中國的抗震救災與所謂的「新聞自由」強行聯繫在一起,遭到高度評價中國救災工作的聯合國新聞發言人、聯合國各組織發言人的嚴詞反駁。在今天上午的新聞發佈會上,聯合國各組織首先介紹了中國抗震救災的進展情況和聯合國與中國在抗震救災過程中團結協作的詳情。就在新聞發佈會即將結束之際, 一名西方媒體記者提問稱,中國政府不許西方記者進入災區報導,有悖「新聞自由」。此言一出,當即引起強烈的反應。聯合國新聞發言人厄澤女士一反慣常的沉穩溫和態度,嚴厲地搶先回應道:「我不許你這麼說!」隨後,她詳細地解釋了汶川發生地震災害後聯合國與中國的合作情況。她強調,抗震救災是搶救生命,是人道主義緊急救援行動,絕不能與其他不相干的事情聯繫在一起。聯合國人道主義救援署發言人伊莎貝拉·比爾斯女士紅了眼圈,她聲音顫抖地說,抗震救災是在與時間賽跑,救援人員早進入災區一秒鍾,就能多救出一條生命。災情發生後的前幾天最重要的任務是搶救被埋在廢墟下的生命。中國救援人員是在道路交通嚴重堵塞,重型機械無法進入救援現場的情況下,徒步前進,用雙手搶救受災群眾,可歌可泣。她強調,聯合國人道主義救援署與中國的合作從地震發生伊始就非常順暢,救災的原則是首先保證讓中國自己的救援人員迅速進入災區開展緊急搶救,中國也並沒有拒絕國際援助。其他聯合國組織發言人也紛紛表示,媒體應該客觀公正,不能將人道主義救援與其他問題牽扯在一起,表示將盡一切努力幫助中國抗震救災,重建家園。聽到這些公正的聲音,坐在台下記者席中的我也再按捺不住,立刻舉手要求發言。得到發言許可後,面對現場百餘名記者,我強忍心中的激動,努力維持平穩的語速:「我要給這位無知提問者上一堂『地理和道德課』!中國的面積比歐洲還大,而且地震災區位於中國西南部的偏遠山區。地震造成的破壞巨大,加之氣候條件惡劣,即便是中國救援人員都很難在第一時間進入災區中心地帶。怎麼能在交通通訊資源已經非常匱乏的情況下,置危在旦夕的生命於不顧,而讓不瞭解當地環境和語言的外國記者首先進入?西方媒體不是一向標榜『最珍惜生命』的嗎,怎麼能以所謂的『新聞自由』來干擾我們搶救生命的努力?!」全場靜默。（本報日內瓦5月 16日電） http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/thread-54664-1-1.html [ Last edited by TRuth-home at 19-5-2008 17:14 ]
May 29th, 2008 at 1:45 am
I am deeply sorry that you cannot see the truth of Falun Gong and that you insist on supporting a brutal communist regime who murders and tortures anyone who puts a higher power ahead of it.
I won’t be speaking any further on these matters on this blog as it appears to fall on deaf and already poisoned hearts and minds. This is what I am most sad about for you.
I will hope and pray for the Chinese people to come thru this great tradgedy that has befallen them now.
Take care and please in you hearts remember “Falun Dafa Hao”!
May 29th, 2008 at 3:13 am
specul8r,
Are you a regular visitor on Anti-CNN? I don’t have time to visit, but I would be happy to translate anything on your site that you think the Western audience might be interested in seeing.
http://blog.foolsmountain.com/?p=121
http://blog.foolsmountain.com/?page_id=2
May 30th, 2008 at 12:59 am
Your comments that Falun Gong members were showing their ‘ugly side’ are complete garbage. I had friends that went to the Falun Gong meeting and commented on how amazingly peaceful those people were. But considering the brutal methods the CCP used to suppress Falun Gong, I am not at all suprised that they are still quite angry. How would you feel if you had family members tortured and murdered for absolutely no good reason what so ever?
Furthermore, any members of Chinese diasporas, or members of diasporas of any national origin for that matter, that attempt to infringe upon the free-speech or freedom of religion of US citizens via intimidation should be deported from this country PERMANENTLY. To use CCP style rhetoric, “Such acts hurt the feelings of the American people and are an affront to American values and principles.” BTW, I am not anti-Chinese, but I will not condone barbaric tactics of Chinese citizens in my own country. As I see more and more of such shameful acts being perpetrated by Chinese citizens, I lose more and more respect for them.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Jannifer,
And what are those “barbaric tactics of Chinese citizens”? Please provide some examples with evidence.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:07 am
Jana,
I am sorry that you feel disappointed. Please be assured this blog is not meant for only those who think alike. If so, what would be the point?
I would also like to respectfully suggest that your accusation of “poisoned hearts and minds” is misplaced. As far as I can tell, a majority of the people participating on this site engage in discussions and debates in good faith.
As for your defense of FLG in the context of this blog post “fall[ing] on deaf”, I would like to point to your own blog site and the entry titled “China’s earthquake tribute”, which contains the following:
I think I speak for most of the readers that we do not agree with your position. When tragedy of this kind hit, the most important thing on our mind is definitely not what the CCP do or what to do about the CCP.
And by the way, I am not pro-CCP. I am just pro-China.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:42 am
http://uk.youtube.com/profile?user=NTDTV
May 30th, 2008 at 5:13 am
Buxi,
I am not that regular visit that site but I told my western friends about the western media bias regarding China. I am not from China but I am Chinese American now and when people sell their country to lie about our motherland, I am angry and will expose all those scums to show who is telling the truth.
May 30th, 2008 at 5:26 am
Take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb8v4j6nLko
May 30th, 2008 at 5:28 am
RE: Barbaric tactics…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb8v4j6nLko
May 30th, 2008 at 5:48 am
Jennifer,
“I had friends that went to the Falun Gong meeting and commented on how amazingly peaceful those people were. But considering the brutal methods the CCP used to suppress Falun Gong, I am not at all suprised that they are still quite angry.”
You are contradicting yourself; peaceful people will not get angry; enlightened people will not get angry because they know what is enlightened means and people who don’t usually think they are enlightened but they are not. If you want to know more on spiritual words, go and read J. Krishnamurti and you will understand what I am talking about.
“Furthermore, any members of Chinese diasporas, or members of diasporas of any national origin for that matter, that attempt to infringe upon the free-speech or freedom of religion of US citizens via intimidation should be deported from this country PERMANENTLY.”
To instill fear will have no affects on people who has done everything according to the law. We didn’t burn cross and we didn’t spray swastika on the walls of synagogue or things like that nature. How are we intimidating, madam? We are expressing our disgust of why falun gone members are not doing as normal human beings should to help the suffering fellow chinese people in their homeland; instead, they were celebrating days after days of “heaven destroy china”. Even if they don’t have donation drive, that’s understandable but why celebrating “heaven destroy china” during this emotional period? It’s very insensitive part of their culture that invoke regular Chinese to get angry at them.
“To use CCP style rhetoric, “Such acts hurt the feelings of the American people and are an affront to American values and principles.” BTW, I am not anti-Chinese, but I will not condone barbaric tactics of Chinese citizens in my own country. As I see more and more of such shameful acts being perpetrated by Chinese citizens, I lose more and more respect for them.”
Let me ask you this, have you been to China and see things with your own eyes or you just hear hearsay from certain people? Many Americans and Canadians have completely change their stance against China after they actually visited China and Tibet, and started to realize their countries were feeding them biased news and recent FLG media is one of the source of negative biased news. For your information, I am not Chinese citizens.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:33 am
“I am not Chinese citizens.”
OK. Try, “I am not a Chinese citizen.” Judging from your lack of command of English, you aren’t a US citizen either. Anyways, I’ve known people who have visited or lived in China who came back with a less than favorable impression of it. Anyways, RE: barbaric tactics, here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb8v4j6nLko
May 30th, 2008 at 6:53 am
Jennifer,
You have said “I had friends that went to the Falun Gong meeting and commented on how amazingly peaceful those people were.” This seems to mean that you are positioning to make the comment as a neutral third party observer. But your posting of the video from the mouth piece of Falun Gong leads me to suspect that you are actually a follower of Falun Gong. So please help us understand where you are coming from. Are you a Falun Gong follower or not?
May 30th, 2008 at 7:01 am
Jen,
There is no need to mock someone’s imperfection in mastering the English. And I fail to see how this helps you make a point in this thread of discussion/debate.
And are you the same person as Jennifer?
May 30th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
My point is that “specul8r” is lying about not being a Chinese citizen. I have taught English to Chinese speakers before and I know exactly what kind of grammar errors they make. And if “specul8r” is not a Chinese citizen, why does he/she refer to a collective “we” when trying to defend the Chinese mob in Flushing? This blog is clearly a joke.
May 30th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Jen,
Really? Grammar mistakes are related to citizenship and political status? Well, I am a Chinese citizen, and proud of it. Am I making the kind of grammar errors that “we” make?
There must be a joke here, but I’m not sure it’s the blog that’s responsible.
On this blog, we’re trying to get past emphasis on grammar (and even citizenship status). Think you can try responding to specul8r’s numerous other points?
May 30th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Jen is liar, she is a Falun goner.
Only a Falun goner would call the chinese protestors in Flushing, NY “mob”.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:45 am
to Jen,
“OK. Try, “I am not a Chinese citizen.” Judging from your lack of command of English, you aren’t a US citizen either. Anyways, I’ve known people who have visited or lived in China who came back with a less than favorable impression of it.”
What make you so sure that I am a Chinese citizen?
Just because I am against falun gone? You are dead wrong over and over. I am not against those people who practice spiritual way of living but I am against those leaders who teach flase spiritual ways with instilling fear on their followers, using borrowed terms from Buddhism without fully understand what the terminology means, and besides… their hidden propaganda of political movements. I don’t get involve in politics and I can care more or less of what Communist do or do not. but I am in favor of speaking the truths and I find truths not from one sided reports like you all have from epochtimes or NTDTV.
Since I was so critical of those falun gone leaders and you are so defensive for falun gone, you must be one of the leaders of those falun gone. “You have known people visited …” but you are not the ‘first person experience’ of the truth. If you can take other people’s truth because they look so kind and naive, you should be worried about yourself. Buddha Sakyamuni said to his disciples, “Don’t take all of my words as truth because I am so and so, you have to test them, contemplate them and experience them. If you don’t experience the same as I said, then those are not the truths to you.” Can you or falun gone practioners do that?
I know exactly why you suspect of me a Chinese Citizen. You have read those (bad) english translation I posted. I didn’t change a thing and I posted the way it was in the anti-cnn.com forum.
May you be enlightened someday.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:53 am
To Jen,
“My point is that “specul8r” is lying about not being a Chinese citizen. I have taught English to Chinese speakers before and I know exactly what kind of grammar errors they make. And if “specul8r” is not a Chinese citizen, why does he/she refer to a collective “we” when trying to defend the Chinese mob in Flushing? This blog is clearly a joke.”
I can meet with you face to face and proof to you 100% that I am not a Chinese citizen. If you are wrong, will you apologize to the moderator of this blog? I dare you to take this challenge.
For your information, I am in California and nowhere near to be at Flushing, N.Y. I was expressing as “we” on this blog and not representing in Flushing, N.Y. haha.
May you be enlightened someday.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:04 am
Buxi,
Jennifer wants to get at me because she cannot defend those points on this blog and the only way to discredit me is to smear me as “Chinese Citizen”, just like “falun goner” do and no doubt about that she is one like them. I don’t mix politics with spiritual living nor sports. Let the politicians do their own politics.
June 1st, 2008 at 1:05 am
why “falun gone is a cult”
Here’s the proof why falun gone is “self promoting cult” by watching these falun gone propaganda websites and sites that refute the images are hoax
Falun Gone propaganda websites:
1) Images (google search – udumbara flower + falun gong)
http://images.google.com/images?q=udumbara%20flower%20falun%20gong&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=DVFA,DVFA:1970–2,DVFA:en&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
2) udumbara flower found in Australia (clearwisdom.net)
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2007/9/2/89172.html
3) udumbara flower found in California (clearwisdom.net)
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2007/8/18/88700.html
4) udumbara video broadcast from NTDTV to promote another Buddha (meaning LHZ) returning to save mankind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7mycKWApIc
___________________________________
ARE YOU READY? COMPARE IMAGES FROM LACEWING EGG WITH UDUMBARA FLOWER (as falun gone sites claimed) AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. READ 2 FOR EXPLANATION.
1) IMAGES OF LACEWING EGG (GOOGLE SEARCH)
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=lacewing+egg&spell=1
2) FLOWERS GROWING ON STEEL? I BEG TO DIFFER…
http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2007/06/20/flowers-grow-on-steel-pipe-in-china.htm
___________________________________
Do you see now why falun gone has been telling the truth? They lied and cheated their members to make LHZ appears larger than life, a new BUDDHA returning to the world to save mankind. Yeah… right.
June 1st, 2008 at 3:45 am
Today, (Sunday) Falun goners gathered again in Flushing, New York, around noon time, talking about how CCP caused the earthquake.
June 1st, 2008 at 6:20 am
As Chinese American, all I want to see is CCP to stop the persecution of innocent people, that’s all. We all know the communist offers no human rights in China and that’s a fact! I support FLG simply they are the only group dare to stand up to the communist. Obviously, there are some pro communist Chinese people here in the states and you know what, they are not welcomed here.
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:49 am
Lee,
As you support FLG, your opinion means nothing to Chinese. More or less, we dont consider you as one of Chinese and you are not welcome in China.
June 2nd, 2008 at 4:08 am
w,
i think otherwise. Perhaps communist won’t welcome people like me, but just like FLG said, Communist ruled China not equal to China.
Is the word “we” in your comment represent the ordinary Chinese people, or communist party, or other group or individual? Please specify. As far as I know, there are still people practice FLG in China silently, do you consider these people Chinese?
BTW, you sound very much like a communist by threaten and against anyone who think different, but you know what, this is America and I can support who ever I want.
June 2nd, 2008 at 5:43 am
Lee,
A cult is a cult no matter how it is practicing silently or not. Will you support David Koresh and Branch Davidian of Waco Texas if they were practicing silently? Will you support Jim Jones, Heaven’s Gate by knowingly they are cult and mind their own business?
It has been repeatedly shown that falun gone group is not practicing of their “truthfulness-compassion-forbearance” at all; they cheat and lie, they have no compassion to humanity and their compassion is narrowly defined to falun goners only, and they don’t have any forbearance quality at all. The leaders has been cheating practioners who were originally innocent people and turn them into anti-China for their political purpose and use them as scapegoat to die for their cult leader.
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:15 pm
from my observance, flg has no history of your claim out side of China. Only the communist china started called them cult in their propagandas, and you know what, I never trust them nor their controlled media.
The communist made a mistake by started everything and it just got too brutal, now will cause them a lot of trouble to get it resolved because unlike any other group/individual, it seems flg is the toughest and isn’t going away anytime soon. The communist party has many issues on its hand inside China, corruption, Olympic, earthquake, pollutions, etc, and they got the flg and tibet pressure from outside of China. FLG is the toughest “challenger” communist faced so far. If flg is really a cult, communist would have got rid of them long time ago, but til today, flg still exists in China, and how is it possible they can diminish flg outside of China?
People can tell me flg is bad this and bad that, but they seem very peaceful and never caused much trouble.
June 2nd, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Lee,
I met dozns of new oversea chinese students in last 5 years, I went back to China and met hundreds of China, none of them talk any negative things about this governemnt.
When I asked them what they think of the dissidents in USA, the answers were “let them mess up with themselves.” or ” what on earth do they want from China ? another India or another Russia ? ”
Enjoy your rampage, we dont give a damn. As you call me a CCP member, you are damn wrong, I participated in 1986 and 1989 democracy demonstration. I dont care communism or capitalism, one party system or two party sysme, it is a good government if majority of its people support it.
BTW, I have seen the west democracy, China would be in complete chaos with west democracy. Maybe that is what you like to see, sorry we wont listen to you.
June 2nd, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I think FLG is more like a religion than a cult, but I don’t know how to properly distinguish between “cult” and “religion” in English. FLG is certainly not similar to other traditional “Chinese” religions; it’s very secular, and it paints unbelievers as potentially being evil and dangerous. As I’ve discussed before, traditionally, religions (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, ancestor-worship) were treated more as schools of thought.
Most Chinese borrowed teachings from these religions as necessary; if you were to look closely, I think it’s probable that even the Chinese who’ve converted to Christianity still burn incense at a Buddhist temple now and then.
The FLG has been very successful in terms of maintaining a presence on the mainland, that’s certain. Despite tight government censorship, truth is many (most?) Chinese have been “exposed” to FLG writings. This is done through random telephone calls, fliers stuffed into mailboxes, random emails, chatting online via QQ or MSN. I personally know many have read the infamous 9 Commentaries, for example.
But my personal observations tell me that FLG claims that it is building any influence in China today, taht it is a “challenger”… that’s a complete myth. All of this exposure hasn’t increased any sort of public sympathy for FLG in China.
The FLG’s ridiculous claims which make it suspicious in the West (30 million resigned from the Communist Party?), also make it suspicious in mainland China. The one-sided, one-minded political agenda in its writings have inoculated many Chinese against what they have to say. Most netizens are just annoyed at being repeatedly spammed, and mock the messages they receive.
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:56 pm
w,
I traveled all over China twice on train for 2 months twice and both was a good experience. The “happy Chinese” are those got richer over the past years but that’s still a very limited number. A lot Chinese are still poor, many are unhappy about the conditions and unfair treatment. Yes, I agree on the economic side of china has improved and many people got richer. However, there are so many problems exists that fundamentally impossible to resolve. For example, no check and balance, top to down corruptions, and deteriorate moral standard, etc, and if you ask me, communist government is the origin of these problems. Some people said to allow some time to change, I am very optimistic on that suggestion. If democracy works in Taiwan, why it won’t work in China? Back to the subject on flg, regardless their political intention or not, it’s only good for all the Chinese people that the flg’s pressure putting on the communist government for the better.
Out of curiosity, why did you participate 6/4, and why you’ve changed your views now?
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Lee,
That is right, there are still tons of problem in China, that doesnt mean democracy wouldve solved the problem, actually there would be lot more problems in China with west democracy. Actually, West democracy is basically “mememe” philosophy, and never work well in a poor or developing country. and it has allowed all kinds of garbage flooding into every corner of the society.
Let me use an example to illustrate the situation in China :
Suppose you have to take 20 children to lunch, one of the children wants McDonald, one wants pizza, one wants chinese foods, one wants donkin donuts, etc.
What will you do ?
No matter where you take them to, there will be some kids who are unhappy with the food YOU CHOOSE FOR HIM.
So the best you can do is to make most of them happy; if 18 or 19 of 20 children liked the foods, you did an excellent job, THOUGH ONE OR TWO CHILDREN ARE UNHAPPY.
Now imagine you have to live with 20 children for 4 weeks, sometimes, sometimes you will yell “shut up.”
That is the problem of human right in China West has been talking about in last 10 years.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Here is the so-called west democracy :
Russell A. Castro Department of Sociology & Criminal Justice Southeastern Louisiana University, proposed the Elite Model for Americal politics in which he states:
The elite model argues that power within society is highly concentrated. The elite model posits THREE levels of power in American society:
1) the power-elite (extremely powerful) 2) the government (powerful) 3) the mass public (relatively powerless).
Less than 1% of the U.S population own approximately 85% of the nations “income-producing-wealth.”
(Diana Kendall 1999, Sociology in Our Times)
The top 400 households in the United States earned over 1% of the total income paid out to the ENTIRE U.S national population of 280 MILLION people.(New York Times 2003)
The tiny “Power-Elite” class control: Energy (Oil, Natural Gas, and other energy technologies). Banking & Investment Securities. Insurance (life/health, property, & commercial). Transportation (Automobile, Aircraft, and Sea Vessel production & sales + the air-travel and transport businesses). Pharmaceuticals. Commercial Food Production. The Mass Media (TV, Radio, & Entertainment).
THE ELITE MODEL: Summarized In this way, candidates selected (through economic support) by the elite compete in elections arranged and driven by organizations supported by the elite (political parties) and are voted into office (and thus, made legitimate) by the mass-public, who get all of their information about the social world (and about politics) from the mass media, which is dominated and controlled by the elite.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:15 pm
About corruption, it is universal problem, Russia had widespread problem of corruption under Yeltin.
the same in US, Bernard Kerik
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Kerik
……..
A week later, Kerik withdrew his nomination, explaining that he had employed an illegal immigrant as a nanny; subsequently, numerous allegations surfaced which would likely have led to a confirmation battle. In 2006, Kerik pled guilty to two unrelated ethics violations after an investigation by the Bronx District Attorney’s Office, and was ordered to pay $221,000. He is currently under Federal investigation: A grand jury issued a multi-count indictment on November 8, 2007 alleging conspiracy, mail fraud, wire fraud and lying to the IRS. Kerik surrendered to authorities on Friday, November 9, 2007, was arraigned before Magistrate Judge George Yanthis in White Plains, New York Federal Court, and pled not guilty to all 16 charges
BTW, for those who dont know who Bernard Kerik is :
he was the chief of NYPD during 911, a hero at that time
____________________________
Of course, as you hate chinese government, you will blame anything bad in China on the government.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:30 pm
To your question :
Out of curiosity, why did you participate 6/4, and why you’ve changed your views now?
My answer :
We didnt try to overthrow the government, we wanted west democracy and believed that China would be much much better with west democracy. (for example, see the way they handle after Katrina, government doesnt care.)
Then I came to Ameria, I found out the West system is basically a system for rich, totally different from what I believed. and More, West system caused tons of social problems in society : drug, mafia, unions (they fighted for every dollars even in recession, as result, lot of city bankrupts), paying lot more than necessary for medication.
What is worse, people know the problems, but the system wont be able to solve them.
I am not saying chinese government is perfect, it will get better gradually, a change like in Russia would be a disaster for China and chinese people.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:42 pm
w,
First of all, in your example, to treat Chinese people as “children” is not appropriate and disrespectful. Second, Chinese people were never able or offered to choose “pizza” or “McDonald”.
Like I said earlier, Taiwan already proves that democracy can work for the Chinese, it already paved a way and set example to illustrate how the nationalist gave up its power and adopted democracy. But of course, the Nationalist is not at the same level as Communist.
American government is not perfect but that’s another topic and if you want to discuss, we can focus on that later on.
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Lee,
I actually see the Taiwan model to be a big
failuredisappointment, so far. It’s a miracle that Taiwan wasn’t torn apart in the last eight years. (Hmm, I should qualify my claim; I mean physically. Psychologically, …)If you think the last seven and half years are bad in the US, Taiwan serves as a reminder that it could have gotten much much worse. Yes, they elected Ma now and it is interesting to see how things would be turned around in the next 4 or 8 years. I wish the best for Taiwan as it struggling to get out of its prolonged nightmare.
Call my perspective a glass half empty one, but I simply see Taiwan serving as a bad example of how disruptive and destructive it could be for a system to transit to the democracy in a sudden manner. And don’t forget that the overall condition in Taiwan was far more favorable for such a transition than it is currently in the mainland.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:45 am
Lee,
The job of a government is making its people living better and happier.
How does it accomplish that ? Listen to its people (children in my analog), see what they need and design the best plan and carry it out.
Did west system accomplish that ? No. The following are some examples and explanation :
________________________________
WEST SYSTEM IS BUILT ON WEALTH, the reason you feel so perfect about this system is that you are allowed to make $10,000 more after 3 years while those richest make 10 million dollar more. That is why US system worked so perfectly after WWII till 1970s.
For example, the current oil price, one effective way is that Government put pressure on those oil companies giving away some of their profits. Did you ever hear your media talking about ” the pocket of oil companies is getting fatter and fatter.” ? Bush will never do that, Obama wont be able to do that even he wants to.
NRA, the national rifle organization, why cant congress pass a simple and reasonable law of background check ? and Read your media, it is like either complete ban of gun sale or no control at all, like there is nothing in between. Why didnt your media set up a column talking about effective law that keep guns from criminals ?
Even in economy recession, no money is spared on military,(you know that one less SR-71 plane wouldve saved a big city for a year.) NEVER !!! WHY? Lockheed Martin corp wouldnt allow that !!! Did you ever see your media talking about cutting military spending ?
In 1998, when government had surplus for the first time in 20+ years, Greenspan suggested to pay back some debts with surplus, which is the idea of Reaganism. What happened ? Nothing !!! You know why ? cuz Wall street didnt like it, they wanted to use those money to booming the economy so they could keep making millions and millions of dollars.
Now about New Orlean, since after the first 1 month of Katrina, how often do you hear media talking about rebuilding Katrina or the current situation in New Orlean? what happened to those people who lost their house ? How were those schools that were under water during Katrina ? Why was there no reports? Why not government order one less SR-71 plane ? 100 million dollars wouldve done tons of help to the poor people in New Orlean.
____________________________
Before you criticize chinese government, you should know two concepts :
1) the difference between criticizing the government and bashing the government.
2) The differnece between “you can vote.” and ” your vote count.”
and also you should explain why China would be better with the idea system in your mind. Taiwan was one party system all the time until about 1990, the democracy didnt do much for Taiwan. Chinese certainly dont want to become another India.
Actually, Chinese government listen to its people lot more than West unless someone try to bash the system, which is not allowed in West either, remember McCathyism ?
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:34 am
Good info, it makes me realize the good part being here in the states is we are able to gather more information than in China and thus allowing people to think independently. Let’s face it, none of us could openly discuss this flg issues in china’s website without getting into trouble from the police. Is it good or bad?
To keep matter simple and focus on the topic on the discussion, and after read over almost every reply on this blog, I think people here forgot what the fundamental cause of our disagreements. Many here don’t agree with flg and related activity but few ask why they are doing it. Instead arguing round and round, situation would be better here if we can dig to the root of the problem of argument. From my record and to trace back, it was the communist started to defame and persecution of flg, and that leads to all the headaches and public relations nightmare they are facing now. If communist weren’t being so harsh and maybe used other more peaceful methods, I think we wouldn’t see so many flg handing out flyers and newspapers, thus we wouldn’t be here arguing our hearts out. Personally, I think the communist have overdone it and it was a mistake.
Now if we look at the whole picture:
At one corner in the ring, we got the Communist party, they are well equipped, they got guns, they got army, they got big propaganda machine, they got years of experiences of hurting people, and they got every tricks in the book and never ever fail a battle they encounter….. And at the other corner, we got some naïve, silly civilians, they got no weapon, no experience, not much resources, no supporters and way out numbered, the only weapon is the so-call flg belief. The fight would be over before it gets started by looking at these contestants if I was the judge. Early in the fight, the communist came out from nowhere and threw the first punch and normally that should be more than enough, flg swallow it hard but amazingly didn’t get knocked out. It would take a miracle to win but Flg continue on with the fight for several years, and now is gaining some momentum. Hey people, if anybody is witnessing, you got give some credit to flg because they are the underdog, they got some awkward style, and they are putting the communist in defense.
Okay, all jokes aside, us Chinese don’t like violence and prefer peace, so why can’t them make peace with one another and it would be over? In my opinion, the initial gesture should be made by the communist; after all, they are the instigator and started the trouble. However, truce is unlike to happen because communist took it too extreme and they never admit wrong doing. Donald Trump said this:”if somebody punches you, you have to punches back ten times harder.” So how can anyone blame them for their way of survival?
Lastly, on the Flushing incident, if the Chinese communist can’t diminish flg in China, you think some people in Flushing will succeed? Well, unless you are worse than the communist.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:06 am
Lee,
You’ll have to explain this to me. Why is the FLG “fighting” the Communists at all? Why can’t individual FLG practictioners work on improving themselves, and be happy with it?
What is the motivation behind trying to gain power in China and amongst the Chinese community? Is it revenge, or what? If you really care about “injustice”, there’s a lot of it in the world. Why do you care about injustice more in China than you do in Iraq, for example?
I’m not asking the question to argue. I’m genuinely curious. I’ve never understood why FLG followers invest so much time in fighting the Communist Party.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:07 am
Wahaha,
Great comments, and hope you’ll contribute your stories to the 6/4 discussions we will have in upcoming days.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:44 am
lee,
“Obviously, there are some pro communist Chinese people here in the states and you know what, they are not welcomed here.”
On a simple note, as an American myself, I don’t think you can say or restrict people to enter America. People are allowed to have opinions (I’m not saying that they are CCP supporters), remember the point you’re trying to make; America is a democracy and people are allowed to have their own opinions.
So, who the hell are YOU to say other Chinese are not welcomed in America??You’re also Chinese judging by your name…It’s not a decision for you to make in the first place! So stop acting as though you speak for all Americans…
Before hearing this news & watching the videos on the internet, I had a positive image of FG, but after this incident…They’ve proved that they’re no better than the CCP. My deepest sympathy for the Chinese people (parents who lost their only child).
My partner and I will donate whatever we can.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:03 am
b,
My guessing is the communist will continue their brutality on flg and others if nobody speaks out. flg is simply seeking justice.
j,
Pretty much everyone knows Communist is about dictatorship, America is about democorcy and freedom. So please don’t tell me Americans would prefer dictatorship over democracy. Yes I am not afraid to say I don’t like communist because I have some personal reasons, and that’s why I come to America to get away from them. Give you one example, when people immigrant here and applying for citizenship, one of the question I remember is “are you a member of the Chinese Party?” Obviously, that question proves America does not welcome communist and communism.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Lee,
There is no peaceful way to ban Falun, as it didnt allow any doubt, let alone criticism. So the problem comes down : Do you think Falun would do great harm to China and Chinese people ? and if it did, then how should chinese government ban it ? I dont totaly agree the way chinese government handling Falun, but after watching what they did in Flushing, I cant think of a peaceful way to ban it.
BTW, IN MY OPINIONM, there was never real democracy in human history, the west democracy is something allowed WITHIN ITS SYSTEM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968
Also, freedom of speech can do something good, but it also can do tons of harm to people and society.
This is my last post on this thread.
June 4th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Lee,
If you ever read “Zhuang Falun”, they have many reference to ‘attachment’. What does attachment means? Attachment is your thought constantly being remembered from the past and can’t let go of it. If they are cultivating and they know that ‘attachment’ is bad, why are they repeatedly trying to bring so called ‘justice’ against China? For your information, FLG is not the only qigong group got banned. Another group ‘Putigong’ is also widely followed in China were also banned in China but the master ‘JinBodhi’ came to Canada and still teaching ‘Putigong’ to people. They don’t try to bring ‘justice’ against China.
http://putimeditation.org/
Guess what, master ‘Jin Puti’ is real buddhist monk and his compassion show in this article:
http://www.faithandmedia.org/articles/show/254
June 4th, 2008 at 6:17 am
Lee,
Since you are very fond of Western style Democracy, think about this.
If your country is trying to push “Western style Democracy” to another country to follow, can your country still be called “Democratic” based on what you have done, in other words, forcing another country to follow your ‘democracy’ is considered ‘democractic’? Isn’t that what you would call dictatorship? What if the people in that country won’t accept your “Democracy Style”, can you still tell them there’s no ‘Democracy’ in that country because they don’t accept your idea they way you wanted?
June 4th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
S,
Maybe it’s irrelevant, but your question reminded me used to picking out sections of the bible to my now 95 year Christian grandmother and tried to convince flaws and questionable remarks, and her response most of the time was:”just believe, don’t be afraid.” She’s been a Christian for 50 years btw.
Let’s get to the point of your question, I don’t know whole a lot about the book (maybe I should start to read since you brought it up), but I feel it would be very wrong and not making sense that flg remain silence during the persecution. If you observe carefully, flg are bunch of regular civilians who has no weapons, their way of “fighting” is asking people know the truth about the persecution and withdraw from communist party. Usually they hand me a flyer or newspaper but never forced me to join them. Why are people so object to that? On the other hand, if Chinese communist (I always use communist and not China is because often it’s communist’s responsibility) not so fond of flg’s method, why can’t they just make peace? After all, it’s the communist started the whole thing. Honestly, I never imagined flg can last this long and I admire their resilience and bravery.
On the topic of democracy, I don’t think the system is perfect. After many years in China and aboard, like many, I feel the reason America become so powerful is this country were built with a solid foundation, and the foundation is the 10 amendments and bill or rights. The freedom of belief, religion, press, owning a weapon, speech, right to trial, etc, these basic human rights is the difference between a communist country and America. Contrary, the condition in China is people don’t have these basic rights and the reason for that?
On the topic of China and where is China’s future? Pretty much everyone knows that this country has 5000 years uninterrupted glorious history, the reason for that? Culture—that is the foundation for China! Dynasty comes and goes, but culture remains. Without Chinese culture, Chinese people will have no identity. Sadly, the communist tried to destroy the Chinese Culture. So if you really care about China, try to be a Chinese instead a communist.
June 4th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
w,
We see many people continue to practice after the crackdown outside of China, especially in Taiwan. That fact alone should conclude flg isn’t what the communist claimed to be. Therefore, it was a mistake they did what they did. Time always reveal the truth.
History tells us, after once the great Roman Empire persecuted Christians, they vanished from earth. If you ever been to Rome, you know what I am talking about.
Peace out.
June 4th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
What Lee said is a typical FLG’s way of thinking: Christian was once supressed by authority, now Christian is popular and Roman Empire vanished; so, FLG will prospery and CCP will vanish too.
I want to remind FLG: you may hate CCP, but the victims in China Earthquake are not CCP! Show your respect of the dead!
June 5th, 2008 at 6:30 am
lee,
When flg member hand out papers and newsletters on the streets, they always stick it to your face and if you don’t accept it, they will say things like “come on… just watch them.” and things like that. I was in Japan in February and they were acting the same as those falun goners in New York 4 years ago in New York Central Park. I was vacationing there and I did not ask for the materials. If I want them, I will go over and pick them up. Why do they have to come to me and hand out the stuffs? It’s their selfish intent to just try to save their own kind of people in China and I am not surprised why China wants to lock those people up. They may not own weapons but they are disrupting normal business activities where they are protesting and it has become a nuisance. They are acting just like a ‘loser’ standing on the street day after day. And I am not surprise to learn that a Christian like you cannot understand of what flg is about in term of religion or cult and siding with flg.
Do you believe America still have democracy? If you are labeled as ‘terrorist’, then you are not different as you are labeled as ‘dissident’ in China. You can be locked up without due process of law. Look at Guantanamo bay prison and you will find out.
The freedom of belief, religion? Can David Koresh practice his cult in Waco Texas? I am saying that not because I agree with cult but the point to make is ‘democracy’ – ‘freedom of belief, religion’. U.S. Government still try to destroy Branch Davidian in order to save those kids in the compound. Is that different treatment from Chinese government and flg?
How did the China destroy Chinese Culture? Remember, before Chinese Communist take over, there were a high rate of illiteracy in China. So, what did the communist do? They created simplified writing system so more people are able to read and write the chinese language. Is chinese language part of Chinese Culture? China continue to make those minority cultural dances without extinction while it become less and less support in Taiwan. No wonder when these flg cultural shows were “ooh and ahhh…” by the Taiwanese because they have never seen them in their lives. Who made it available?
June 7th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Did you try google Falun Gong Flushing now?
see what you get.
Maybe you should investigate some more. I am neutral in the case, but
when “peaceful chinese residents of Flushing” spit at my camera just
because I am taking pictures, somehow I’d rather sympathize with Falun
Gong people, simply because of their civil behavior.
Great publicity for China right before the Olympics. Just awesome!
June 7th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
MM,
So I did a Google search as you suggested. And there are mostly Epoch Times reports as before. I did find a New York Times article dated May 30th, which sounds neutral but fails to interview any counter protesters or explain their anger at FLG followers’ alleged glee over the earthquake as a punishment for CCP.
The most interesting part of the NYT article is the photo displayed. Please take a close look at the big sign at the right side. It contains the same 天滅中共 “Heaven is destroying the CCP” slogan I discussed in the post. The character 中,which is the “Chinese” part in Chinese Communist Party, shows a clear earthquake crack through the middle. So how does this help FLG’s argument?
And which article contains the spitting incident? Or is that your personal experience? Could you give more details?
June 13th, 2008 at 5:24 am
RE BUXI question “You’ll have to explain this to me. Why is the FLG “fighting” the Communists at all? Why can’t individual FLG practictioners work on improving themselves, and be happy with it?
What is the motivation behind trying to gain power in China and amongst the Chinese community? Is it revenge, or what? If you really care about “injustice”, there’s a lot of it in the world. Why do you care about injustice more in China than you do in Iraq, for example?
I’m not asking the question to argue. I’m genuinely curious. I’ve never understood why FLG followers invest so much time in fighting the Communist Party.”
My Answer: “The moment the Ccp illegally and immorally made 100 million FGP in China criminals for meditating and practising principles to improve themselves then that is when we all had to tell the Chinese and the world the truth about this persecution – in that the Ccp fabricated so many lies and staged so many hoaxes about Falun Gong to incite fear and hatred against FG.
The CCP were and still are scared of us because we have a higher belief than the Ccp. We do not want power, we do not want to run the country we just want the persecution to stop. We have never done anything violent anywhere. But the Ccp has done something so inhuman the Heavens will not tolerate any Government or human persecuting people whose only wish is to cultivate into a good person.
The Ccp has told so many lies and spent so much money and manpower on this persecution that they have no way out now to tell the truth to the Chinese and western worlds. Although the western worlds do believe the truth about Falun Gong being good.This is the issue. The Ccp would rather fall over this issue than do the right thing not only for FG but for the Chinese people who were beginning to enjoy a new renaissance of spiritual and freedom life after the cultural revolution ended.
No human being can take away any other humans being right of belief in Gods Buddhas or Daos, that is why the Ccp can never eradicate us. This is what scares them the most. But they have dug themselves into a bulls horn and will not turn around and be truthful thereby really putting the Chinese peoples good future first.
June 15th, 2008 at 7:01 am
To Jana,
When falun gone people secretly notified overnight and assembled themselves in Beijing in a short moment in 1999 had to be well organized event and it’s not a small mickey mouse gathering especially when falun gone told the world that there’s no organizaiton in flg. If that’s not a national security threat, then what is? The shutdown of falun gone is not because of meditation and practicing mixed buddhism thoughts interpreted by the leader of falun gone. Falun gone has secret group and method of communicating among themselves through email systems.
If there is no organization and no membership, how can you say the number of falun gone members are higher than CCP? How do you know you don’t have double counted your falun gone members and exaggerated your membership?
I had never believed the news about “Sujiatun Organ Harvesting” propaganda by falun gone and it was fabricated with so many lies and staged the recordings of conversations with hospitals. How can you trust a news from a wife of a brain surgeon who was doing corneal surgery? Give me a break when you make up a story. It’s full of deceit.
Western worlds don’t know jack about buddhism and especially when people fall into believing the fabricated propaganda by falun gone. I was first sympathetic of falun gone at early years but eventually learning to know the group has become extreme and no longer practicing of what they have believed in. It’s a shame that they were doing the talk but not the walk.
You still believe CCP is scare of you? It has been nine years and your leader said CCP will be destroyed soon. How soon? I am just wondering where is he hiding now? Where is the Chinese Nostradamus? He is even afraid to be seen in public and make anymore predictions that have never come true. Forget about his psychic abilities.
June 16th, 2008 at 1:11 am
re Specul8y
Falun Gong is national threat? How? If the persecution stopped tomorrow we would pack up our signs and go back to just meditating and cultivating in the FA. You have misunderstood who the real culprit is here. Do we murder people? Do we torture people do we take away people rights of belief and expression to have relationship with their God? Are we violent? NO to all the above questions. Do I need to ask you if the Ccp does these things? I think everyone knows that they do.
When a human being learns something is good and will help them become a better person and then a govt says it’s wrong do we not have a moral duty to correct this issue to help more people know that this is good so they too can benefit from such a good practice?
When your heart has become selfless and you wish for all people to know this if it is their destiny then it requires no organised effort to get cultivators to turn up at the Gov’t buildings to peacefully talk with the Officials to try and correct this matter.We were invited to Zhongnanhai that day.Were we violent and rowdy? NO, we even picked up all the cigarette butts and garbage the policeman left on the street. 10,000 FG practitioners peaceful standing there wishing the very best for all of Chinese people so was there for jiang zemin to be scared of?
Buddhists and Christians alike also did this to help all people know that their path is good. All good things that come into this world are persecuted by evil people. There is good and bad on this earth. Haven’t you noticed this? Which side do you stand on? The path of whats right or whats wrong?
June 16th, 2008 at 1:12 am
Falun Gong is national threat? How? If the persecution stopped tomorrow we would pack up our signs and go back to just meditating and cultivating in the FA. You have misunderstood who the real culprit is here. Do we murder people? Do we torture people do we take away people rights of belief and expression to have relationship with their God? Are we violent? NO to all the above questions. Do I need to ask you if the Ccp does these things? I think everyone knows that they do.
When a human being learns something is good and will help them become a better person and then a govt says it’s wrong do we not have a moral duty to correct this issue to help more people know that this is good so they too can benefit from such a good practice? When your heart has become selfless and you wish for all people to know this if it is their destiny then it requires no organised effort to get cultivators to turn up at the Gov’t buildings to peacefully talk with the Officials to try and correct this matter. Were we violent and rowdy? NO, we even picked up all the cigarette butts and garbage the policeman left on the street. 10,000 FG practitioners peaceful standing there wishing the very best for all of Chinese people so was there for jiang zemin to be scared of?
Buddhists and Christians alike also did this to help all people know that their path is good. All good things that come into this world are persecuted by evil people. There is good and bad on this earth. Haven’t you noticed this? Which side do you stand on? The path of whats right or whats wrong?
June 16th, 2008 at 2:12 am
Selfless… that’s one very correct words to use. However, look around what falun gone people are doing with the word ‘Selfless’. They were selfless only towards their fellow falun gone practioners. There are many people suffering and falun gone has no interested to helping those people nor will they try. Why? Isn’t that the selfish when you are measuing up against humanity? What’s so different of those people who are suffering in the world? They are not worthy to be saved? You can talk and twist the word your way but the walk is not showing.
It’s not true that all good things that come into this world are persecuted by evil people. There are many ’saints’ doing to relieve sufferings of the people around the world and they are doing regardless of what religion or political differences the suffering people belongs to. That’s the nature of ’selfless’ means. With the true ’selflessness’, then a true ‘compassion’ arise towards another human beings or animals or nature and not only restricted to your race or your religion. Learn to understand the meaning beyond the word instead of attaching on the word alone.
June 16th, 2008 at 2:30 am
If Falun Gong were only helping them then we would not continue to practice Falun Gong out in the open. But we are practising out in the open dignified and strong in our belief of right. This is what the Ccp cannot defeat. If we were selfish we could just keep practising our way in private with out any persecution right?
But because we are selfless we wish to help people stop creating more bad karma against them and their future lives by themselves aiding this persecution started by the Ccp. We are laying down our lives in order to save people who persecute us. Many officials and prison guards now know that Falun Gong is good and they do not persecute it anymore. These people have been saved because they know its wrong to hurt good cultivators of a righteous way.
All Falun Gong practitioners have to do is to get out of jail is denounce Falun Gong by signing a statement. This will get them out of prison immediately and then they could go back to practising in private. They choose not to because they know that to denounce Falun Gong in front of such evil doers would not help save these evil doers in the near future. Falun Gong are selfless as we are putting down our lives in order to save Chinese people from this great evil that has fallen upon them –the Ccp.
Truly good people are always persecuted. Buddha and Jesus and Lao Tzu were all persecuted by evil people and rulers who were jealous of their following. If the way is not persecuted then it’s not righteous. This is a law of co existence of good and bad on this human realm.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
what you have described is the same rhetoric over and over again without any concern for those people’s livelihood being destroyed by falun gone deceitful practices. You have to stir-up those innocent people to cause problems against the government while your leader is out in U.S. having a good life. A great way to become Buddha while the disciples are suffering. There’s no sense of any compassion at all.
Where did you get the information that Buddha was persecuted? Show me the scripture that said Buddha was persecuted.
You dare to compare your leader with Buddha and Jesus status is definitely laughable. Jesus dared to meet face to face with his persecutor and knew his life would be in danger but his bodhisattva instinct made him courageous to meet face to face with the king Herod, while your leader is hiding in comfort. Good and bad are the same duality nature of the mind just like light and dark, wisdom and ignorance. A true Buddha will not be affected by the duality nature.
June 16th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
You know not what you say. So i will stop here before you cause yourself any further harm.
June 17th, 2008 at 1:18 am
thank you and you take care of yourself and reach your enlightenment.
June 22nd, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Jana, Make me try to understand if you can in human understandable language that you and I speak like … English, for example. This is the article from October 21, 2000: http://www.clearwisdom.net/eng/2000/nov/05/jingwen110500.html, As you know, Li Hongzhi is doing this undertaking in an ordinary human form, with a human body, using the lowest form of language among lives in the cosmos–the human language, this most simplistic human language of today–and using the lowest form of cultivation, qigong. This has left all beings throughout the cosmos oblivious. In order to evaluate and determine the xinxing position of each sentient being in the cosmos and reposition them, it was necessary that each one’s true xinxing level be revealed. So they haven’t been allowed to know the truth. No being in the entire cosmos knows the truth. They regard me as a cultivator, and so they dare to do what they have. Here’s what your master has to say about himself in his May 25 Fa Conference in Manhattan: http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2008/6/22/98383.html In this world, the ordeals that Master faces, as with the accompanying pressure, come in numbers greater than tens of thousands each day, yet no one has managed to make me waver, and that cannot be done. No one can alter what I want to do. No one can alter it, no matter what form the ordeals that I face take. The same holds true for your validating the Fa. But in your case, as you validate the Fa and save people, you are a cultivator still, and cultivators have human attachments or else they would be gods. And could a god do cultivation? Gods cannot cultivate. Only those with human bodies can cultivate, and only that can be called cultivation. So, precisely because you have this human body, you have the opportunity to cultivate and to improve. Here’s my question: Does your master has human body to cultivate? If he is cultivating, then he is not God because Li Hongzhi said “Gods cannot cultivate”. If he is already been the status of God, then he could not cultivate in this life. If he did not cultivate in this life, how did he learn from his mysterious unknown masters to reach the “Consummation” in this life and become God? Did he become God from previous life? How can an enlightened being like your master have pressure? Pressure develop in human form because the being has human attachments like (anger,frustration,resentment towards another entities) and cannot ‘let go’ of those human attachments. If you are an already enlightened being or person, then you should know what to do, don’t you? Your master have been preaching all those human attachments for many eons and still cannot let go and feel the pressure? If you are already enlightened, then those will not be called pressure, There is a word for that… DAILY TASKS.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=36032046&id=1800056 spitting.
I am not on FG’s side either. But this is a free country, If I want to run around with a billboard saying “Our president is a jack@$$” I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO and nobody has the right to come rip it out of my hands. Check the first amendment.
and since the crowd attacking FG sympathizes so much with CCP doctrine and ways, maybe the local authorities should have gone CCP ways on them: armed soldiers and tanks. The problem would have been solved in seconds, wouldn’t it?
June 25th, 2008 at 1:56 am
HI again Specul8r, The only way I can help you understand is for you to read the book Zhuan Falun for yourself and take the teachings/Law (Fa) as your guide.
These things that you have printed out are for cultivators who have cultivated in Falun Gong for many years. They will not make much sense to someone who does not understand the basics /fundamentals of the teachings. This is very high level and I would not dare to tell you what I think it means. You must figure that out for yourself by becoming a Falun Gong practitioner. Even reading the book with attachments will not work.
It would be like me reading something that Buddha taught or said many years ago and trying to understand that cultivation system at a very high level when i am not cultivating in that system right?
I hope you understand what I am saying as I am not trying to put you off. If I tried to read a book on physics I would have no chance to understand except maybe at an extremely shallow level. And if I did not agree with what was said I could turn it around to reflect my position thereby missing the ultimate or higher truth that the physicist would know.
Thank you for asking as I can really see you wish to understand this phenomenon that is occurring in today’s dharma ending period. I can only suggest that you put aside what the Ccp has said about FG and read Zhuan Falun with no attachments and a sincere wish to cultivate to return to your origin.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:17 am
jana.
Thanks but no thanks. I don’t need another form of cultivation where my cultivation is working for me. If you cannot explain of what you are cultivating to another user, then it doesn’t even make sense to you. How do you know your cultivation system is high level if you have nothing to compare with? You cannot be the best if there’s only one candidate and that’s not the best. I understand everything what you are saying and I know exactly how you get there. If you read a book on Physics and you don’t understand the book, you can consult another book written by another teacher that can explain better and you don’t need to attach to the only book and get stuck on the subject, if you know what I mean. There are some teachers that can explain better than some others. I am asking you to see if you know your material well enough and there’s no CCP involved in my question. I don’t believe in politics and I don’t care who is rich and who is poor but when there are people suffering, I am there to help. I will still help people even my help is reaching only 1% of my effort because that’s the right attitude to save sentient beings. If you are worrying about your efforts wasted 99% and stop aiding, then you are as ignorant as those not helping at all. I hope you understand my point and I pray for you!
June 27th, 2008 at 5:38 am
mm,
Your reasoning is quite amazing and I am not surprise about your attitude; an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Evolution do not take place overnight but Revolution can. Freedom of speech in U.S. did not come without sacrifices in the 60s. Your civil rights can be taken away anytime if you are labeled as “terrorist” and your phone conversation will be wiretapped by the phone company, your rights will be gone overnight in U.S. Do you think this will not happen in U.S.? Look at what Bush Administration is doing now. Every government in the world and the political system is the man-made creation to control one way or the other and there’s no such thing as total freedom. So, it’s useless to discuss about freedom. The true freedom you can have is go away to a place that no country has any rule over it.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:54 am
re Specul8r,
I am glad that you cultivating in a system that works for your ideas and beliefs.. isn’t that what we all do? If you are a Christian and read the bible then you can read it many many times over and over again right?
Each time someone reads it they have a deeper understanding so by that rationale you can see when you pull something off a site that is primarily only meant for Falun Gong practitioners (and the ccp spies too) then what hope would the non cultivators have in understanding at those high levels. What i understand is at my level so i would not dare to explain to you my understanding because 1. You are not cultivating in Falun Dafa and 2. You are hostile to Falun Gong. So it would not matter what i say except maybe to slander FG (And that will never happen.) then only would you agree right?
True freedom is having no attachments in this world and cultivating in a genuine true cultivation system that can take you home.. Falun Dafa may not be for you but it is for me and 100 million more around the world and the Ccp is scared enough of us to persecute us.. ruthlessly. You know never in the whole wide world has any Falun Gong practitioner retaliated with violence or anger even against their persecutors.
NO political power has any right to decide what religion any human can believe in especially since the Ccp destroyed all cultural relics and religions in the Cultural Revolution. Now thru public pressure and a deep desire for the Chines epople to beleive in Gods again they have installed sham temples and churches that are run by the ccp themselves. What evil is this? Does any God support that ? No the ccp have damaged themselves and they will fall . Because its Gods who give out the retribution not humans they can only accrue it themselves.
1.3 billion epChinese people are suffering and I am glad that you have the heart to help them wake up from a nightmare that has been going on for 60 years. The poor Chinese have lost their abilty to know right from wrong becasue they have been ruled with terror violence and imorality for 60 years.
Falun Gong grew so quickly in China from 1992-99. Becasue it directly appealed to their ancient culture
and sense of morality and the Dao. Only when Ccp saw it was too big they felt threatened and jealous and they could no longer control people minds thru fear they illegally and imorally cast 100 million Chinese people into being criminals and hated by the rest of the nation because of intense Ccp propoganda campaigns designed to incite hatred and fear…the rest is history and will be a sad demise for the Chinese people if they dont wake up to it.
June 30th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
jana.
If you cannot explain and your leader cannot make it straight, it’s just a spin. Even Gautama Buddha (Sakyamuni) told his disciples “Don’t take my ‘word’ as ‘TRUTH’ because I am your ‘teacher’; you will have to ‘test’ my ‘word’ and experience that ‘TRUTH’ yourself with your ’subtle mind’; then it becomes ‘TRUTH’ to ‘you’.” I guess you haven’t tested that is the ‘TRUTH’ to you yet.
I don’t know how you can get the figure of 100 millions if there’s no membership to keep track of your practioners. You can move people from one location to another when there is mass gathering to show strength but it still doesn’t proof that those are the actual number of members. You may brag as much as you want and you may even say 200… 300… millions but still no one is going to believe Falun Gong. The credibility is lost.
For your information, what you are describing is not just limited to people in China and it’s all happening in the societies in the world. You will not know because you are so attached and focused in China only and think only happening in China. All these are created by the ‘POWER’ and ‘GREED’. Not every CCP members are bad person. Just because there are a few people who infiltrated up to the middle and upper echelon and abuse the power doesn’t mean the organization itself is bad. It happens all the time in all over the world. You can find exact same thing happening in Taiwan, U.S. corporations, Philippine, Myanmar, Indonesia, African countries, South American countries etc.in every part of societies.
You claim that Falun Gong teaches non-attachment. What do you understand about ‘attachment’ besides the word? Have you or your Falun Gong group ever try to understand beyond the word ‘attachment’? What does it involve for a human to have ‘attachment’? Doesn’t it means your human ‘mind’ is constantly thinking about something and cannot let go? That’s what exactly what Falun Gong group is doing and your ‘mind’ is constantly trying to proof that Falun Gong is strong and will not bow down to CCP. Isn’t that the ‘Pride’? Where is your ‘Xin Xing’? What are you cultivating for? Don’t tell me I don’t understand and I don’t have the high level ”what so ever’ (or in other words, ’spin’) you guys have. This is the most fundamental part of cultivation in most of the spiritual system and falun gong has proof that It’s all just talk but no action. You can copy from other religions, you can read and you can talk but if you don’t practice, you won’t get enlightened; it’s the individual enlightenment and not a group enlightenment. You are born to this world alone and you die alone; you are not born together and die together (your innate spirit) and it’s even true for twins. Believe me… what I am saying is not slandering. If you take it otherwise, I don’t blame you. People do make mistakes and move on with what you learn from your mistakes. Stop losing credibility among Chinese people and the spiritual world.
June 30th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Jana,
“NO political power has any right to decide what religion any human can believe in especially since…”
Just to name a few, have you heard of David Korash and Branch Davidian in Waco, Texas? What about Warren Jeffs and Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? What about Shoko Asahara and Aum Shinrikyo in Tokyo, Japan?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:39 am
Did those groups hurt people in the name of their so called religion? If so then then not only have they broken the law of the land but also heavens law.
Falun Gong has never hurt anyone . There have been no reports ever all around the world in 80 countries of FAlun Gong practitioners hurting others or themsleves, or breaking the law of the land or heavens law.
But the Ccp has murdered 80 million Chinese people in the last 60 years and continues to day to murder good people.Falun Gong practitioners are the very best of humnaity. This persecution is against humanity, kindness and conscience all over the world. The Ccp is persecuting FAlun Gong precisely because we are good honest virtuous people and they are not. This is a battle of Good versus evil…this is the time that Buddha said would be the “end of law or the the end of the dharma” when no one would know the difference between right and wrong.Falun Gong knows the difference and thats why we are being persecuted
Even Jesus talks about this time..
July 1st, 2008 at 1:54 am
Jana, putting aside the sins of the CCP, I have read a bit of the Falun Dafa. This is not a good philosophy. Intellectually, it is on par with any other fundamentalisms out there. But worse, it advocates an understanding of humanity that is evil. Epidemics are caused karma? Practicing FLG will cure illnesses? “We think that his suffering is eliminating karma” – would FLG deny palliative care? The list can go on and on but my favorite is Li Hongzhi teaching about races and mixed children.
The wrongs of the CCP doesn’t make Falun Dafa right.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:05 am
Jana,
How much do you really know about Buddhism? I see you are quoting Buddhism and I suppose you learn about the Buddhism from your master’s book Zhuan Falun because your master forbid you to read any other books out there. Ask youself this question: Where did Li Hongzhi learn his Buddhism while he was in China as you were saying CCP destroyed all those religious texts? How can he learn from authentic buddhism scriptures? Even monks have to learn many years to understand and decode the meaning in Buddhism because many of those Buddhist scriptures are written in Sanskrit words that have dual meaning. I am wondering how can a moderatedly educated Li Hongzhi can acquire and understand Buddhism in a short period of time and not just understand but he has acquired more power than Sakyamuni Buddha.
Let’s talk about Falun Gong. Here’s what Dr. Feng Lili said (source: http://www.pureinsight.org/pi/index.php?news=154):
Typical qigong practices increase and purify qi. Falun Dafa, meanwhile, works on a different type of energy called gong, or “cultivation energy.” Qi is ubiquitous and is found in all living things. People all have qi, but it inevitably diminishes with aging. Gong, in contrast, is developed only in the bodies of those who practice xinxing cultivation. The higher one’s xinxing, the greater the quantity and higher the density of one’s gong.
Practitioners who cultivate their xinxing are actually changing the energy and substances in the body. Over time, as xinxing is cultivated, gong continues to increase regardless of chronological age. Gong is the energy that exerts powerful anti-aging effects and repairs the dysfunction of cells and tissues in the body. To clarify: It is not the five exercises, but the cultivation of xinxing that increases and refines gong. Only xinxing cultivation can achieve the state of “a clean heart and few desires.”
On June 22, 2006, Falun Gong core member Feng Lili died of pancreas cancer in Houston, US. Feng had been giving lectures everywhere, and advocating that, “Falun Gong had magic power in keeping people fit and strong”. She was claimed to be “a leading figure of Falun Gong in the medical community”.
In March 2006, Falun Gong core member Li Guodong died of liver cancer in New York.
As Falun Gong’s “Chief Scientist” Feng Lili had been promoting “Fa” all over the world, racking her brains to “make scientific interpretation” for Li Hongzhi’s heretical fallacies. She died of pancreas cancer while preaching “Dafa can cure all illness” everywhere. Li Guodong, an anchorman with New Tang Dynasty Television, had been working his heart out to show his loyalty to Li Hongzhi by mongering numerous rumors. He finally died of liver cancer.
Li Shulin, 53-year-old, suffered from outburst of cerebral thrombosis at a Falun Gong training course held by Li Hongzhi in August, 1994. According to Li Hongzhi’s explanation, it was a normal reaction as Li Shulin was practicing higher-level Falun Gong and there was no need to take medicines or injection. A couple of days later, Li died.
This is one but not the first and only case of death of Falun Gong practitioners who died at Li Hongzhi’s training courses.
Did the spin from Li Hongzhi get out of control? Judge for yourself.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:46 am
Buddhism is different from the Buddha’s FA or Buddha’s Law. Buddhism is one cultivation school in the Buddha’s Law. Do you understand the difference? Falun Dafa is also another cultivation school in the Buddha’s law or FA. There are 83,000 cultivation schools in the Buddha’s law. Buddhism is but one. I do not quote Buddhism yet it is widely known that the Buddha of 2500 years ago said this time we are in now is the end of the dharma ending time. He also said when asked by his monks “Then who will spread the Dharma and who should we seek out in this Dharma ending time? His reply was “Look for the man who turns the law wheel.”
Buddha did not come back nor did Jesus.. that would just be too easy right? One must enlighten in delusion..Believing is seeing… not the other way around..
Cultivation is very hard and is one of constantly giving up attachments. There is no promise of success from the Master unless one gives up all attachments and adheres to the principles of that school. Cultivation is not about healing illness which is at a very superficial level of understanding. Improving ones mind and heart nature is what is fundamental to success in a genuine cultivation. The Master can only teach you the principles but then it is up to the disciples to do the hard work. If you yourself cultivate then you should know this. Seeking to heal illness is not the aim of or the success of any genuine cultivation practice.
If someone falls ill or dies while practising cultivation them it must have been because there were issues/attachments they were not paying attention to. And they fell to an everyday level in which all human being must die. Xinxing is the way to increase your Gong but it is not done to heal ones illnesses. If you have an attachment to healing your illness it will not work at all. To cultivate is a noble and arduous path to attain your right fruit status.
Not everyone will succeed in cultivation and I can tell you know that no genuine Falun Dafa disciple would advocate practising Falun Gong to heal illness nor would they boast about it openly. I think that many such propaganda articles were organised from the Ccp to discredit/defame FG,. It was all part of their strategy.
I did not practise FG to heal my illnesses (which we all have) but I can tell you my illnesses are healed. There is a fundamental difference in what I am saying and what you are reporting from some dubious sources of Ccp propaganda .Only when I improved my xinxing (heart and mind moral nature) did my illnesses go. I had no attachments to healing illness ; my heart was devoted to attaining the right fruit and helping to save all sentient beings in this dharma ending period.
No spin here just a truthful path of return.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Jana,
There you go. When you discuss about Buddhism, you turn into Buddha Fa. When you discuss about Qi Gong, then you turn into Buddhism. “THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BUDDHA FA”. There is only Dharma and Tantra/Kundalini meditation in Ancient India. There is no Buddhism either. Buddhism is created after Gautama (Sakyamuni) reached enlightenment which is called “Buddhi” state and who reached “Buddhi” state is called “Buddha” or “Enlightened One”. After Sakyamuni reached what is enlightened means, he started to teach Dharma for 40 years and there were still no Buddhist religion. They were just monks who used to worship Vishnu and Shiva Hindu God. What Sakyamuni taught those monks are that should not find God that doesn’t exist outside but looks inward to find “Buddha Nature” through meditation instead. Only then, they will reach “Buddhi” enlightened state. Only after Sakyamuni passed away, all those monks get together and wanted to be differentiated themselves from Hindu religion and since they are the followers of Sakyamuni Buddha, they called themselves “Buddhist”. Still, what they were transmitting was Dharma and not Buddha Fa. I have read China Falun Gong and I am very familiar with what is said. Only you are ignorant and don’t know anything about religion and spiritual life other than your Falun Gong.
Have you heard of Kaliyuga? Is that what you called “Dharma ending time”? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga). Is that “Dharma ending time” predicted in Buddhism or it’s been there long before Buddhism started? I am pretty sure you haven’t even aware about what is Kali Yuga means. That’s why you need to look at other teacher’s books and stop wasting your time and life on useless middle school course subjects like “Zhuan Falun” and start reading College level courses. But it’s your life and you can do what you want with your life.
How much did you know about Jesus? What happen after Jesus was 13 years and before he reached 30. Have you find out where he had been, what had he been cultivating and doing what? Just like “Buddhism”, there was no “Christian” before Jesus Christ. There were only “Essene”. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes). The rest is history and if you are interested, you should research on your own. Don’t debate something you don’t know and you better do some research before you argue and of course you cannot argue with middle school level book knowledge. Of course, Li Hongzhi doesn’t want you to learn from other sources and he is afraid that he has been plagiarizing other people’s ideas and combined them as his own.
The ancient sages of India knew about attachments and karma are part of your personal conscious level and attachments affect your conscious level which in turn affect your subconscious level and which is part of your karma. Karma doesn’t cause a person to get sick but what Karma is causing you to repeatedly continue to do things the way you do like a habit without knowing the ill-effects (fruit of Karma) that bring you down. This ill-effects is not the illness like your “Zhuang Falun” said. What your Zhuang Falun teaches the other way; master’s Fa body can protect the practioners from illnesses and Karma is the cause of illnesses. It’s far from the truth. Karma do not cause illnesses; your unhealthy subconsciousness buoyed to conscious level causes your mind to be disturbed which in turn stimulate your hypothalamus to affect your autonomic nervous system and you have problems with over stimulation of hormones in your body like overworked engines. When engine overworked, then the engine breaks down and the same in human beings.
It’s not seeking to cure illness is the issue. Your spiritual body is using the body to do cultivation and when the body is fragile, then your cultivation is hindered. Only when you nourished your body and your body is healthy, then you can cultivate your spiritual body. That’s exactly how Sakyamuni Buddha found out before reaching his enlightenment while he was meditating near the riverbank. His body was so weak because he had been living ascetic way to cultivate his mind but he couldn’t focus. Then, one day, he ate the rice and milk offered to him from a village girl “Sujata” nourished his body and his mind was alert and could continue to cultivate mindfulness and taught his disciples to practice “Middle Way”. I have never mentioned that you cultivate for your body.
Human being must die is not arguable. We all Die and that’s the truth and that’s why it’s very precious to have a human body. What is not the truth is that when you practice “Falun Gong”, it can cure all illnesses and reverse them. When you spin so much false and the reality is not, then you have problems.
Can you cut your attachment from CCP? Everything you do must be reminded by CCP? How can you cultivate without CCP? Are you always in fear of CCP? In Science, there is “Precision” and “Accuracy” for Quality Assurance/Quality Control. When you are precise with your experiments all the time doesn’t mean you are “Accurate”. You need to be both “Accurate” and “Precise”. What you were doing is “Precise” but it’s not “Accurate”.
This is the last thing I am writing and you are not ready to discuss any further. Good Luck with your path to enlightenment.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:52 am
Specul8r,
No one believed in Jesus at his time except the 12 disciples and then over quite a few years of him teaching maybe 300 people at the most. Only after he had been crucified and rose from the dead did the people begin to believe, same with Buddhism, He fought ideological battles with the Brahmanism religion all his life. He also had bigger following after he died. That simply shows how unenlightened humankind is if they cannot believe before they see and only believe after they see.This shows very poor enlightment quality .
Sorry to tell you this but Buddhism is in Chaos now too- same with Christianity. The law from those religions no longer works does it? Chaos and imorality is everywhere in the Temples and Churches. The Buddha did not write down the scriptures and many years later they were written down by lesser monks who only could write what they understood.Buddha only left the precepts as the guide nothiong more . All the scriptures were written by lesser humans.
We can respect other teachings we just cannot cultivate in more than one teaching at a time until we enlighten in that school. You have mixed way too many teachings together so which Master or Buddha will save you?
I don’t have any attachment to the Ccp . You misunderstand .This persecution needs to stop by every person on the planet making a conscience decision that this is wrong and only by peacefully turning our backs on this great evil in the world will that happen. This is the dharma ending time and the man that turns the law wheel or dharma wheel is here. Enlighten to it . Do not slander Falun Dafa, even your teacher
( if you have one) would turn his back on you for doing so .
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:08 am
Jennifer, do you really believe “tortured and murdered for absolutely no good reason what so ever”? How about talk about it to a judge.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:10 am
Lee , do you really believe?
“persecution of innocent people”
“communist offers no human rights in China and that’s a fact! ”
“the only group dare to stand up to the communist.”
“there are some pro communist Chinese people here in the states.”
Let me answer the last question. If they really “pro communist”, then they should wave the CCP flag, instead of China flag.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:17 am
The blood red flag that you all swore alliegence to is the Chinese flag.
There is lso no rule of Law in China only Rule of Man- no point in talking to any judge in China. Read Lawyer Gao’s book “A China more Just”. He is Christian not Falun Gong.
http://chinaview.wordpress.com/2007/07/18/new-book-a-china-more-just-story-of-lawyer-gao-zhisheng/
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:27 am
There’s nothing wrong practicing Falun gong, which seems very similar to Qi gong, or any other gong originated in the East. Over the months or years of practice, not much difference than the rigorous physical exercise, people will gain mental and physical strength. Few from the West, a lot from the East, fall in this category.
However, Falun (Law wheel – highly religious term in the East) gong brings religion to practice. In it’s worst case, the Falun DaFa (Law wheel Grand law – another highly religious term in the East that governs the universe including any other religion such Christian and Catholics), involves heavily mind manipulation, revere their man made God Li Hongzi. It’s members are willing to lie for its agenda. They become cult.
As the review by a Christian put it, Falun gong is a religion of lie. The above mentioned is actually the bait and switch tactics to bring in new converts. That tactics is illegal in the East and the West. Google “Falun bait and switch” for more information.
The oldest and largest Humanist organization, American Humanist Association rejected to endorse Falun gong, citing “intolerant positions”, “irrational and unfounded claims”, “supernatural powers”, which are “incompatible with our dedication to reason and science”. See the open letter to Falun gong at http://www.americanhumanist.org/press/falungong.php
To those who may not familiar with Falun gong, you can find a wealth of information at Rick A. Ross Institute of New Jersey http://www.rickross.com/groups/falun.html. The institution is expert on cult studies.
Please do get yourself familiar with “How To Detect Bias In News Media” (http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=121)
Thanks for your attention.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:45 am
Just so you know because its obvious you dont Rick Ross cult buster believes that Christianity is a cult. Hes an atheist and believes in nothing which ranks him as being a very superstious simpleton with an axe to grind… Now there is a dangerous man to all of society.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:46 am
jana11@bigpond.net.au
CCP member swore allegiance to CCP flag
Chinese swore allegiance to Chinese flag
The CCP flag if bloody, but accuse “you all swore alliegence to is the Chinese flag” is unfounded.
I know that China is far from perfect, but I doubt “lso no rule of Law in China only Rule of Man”.
If “no point in talking to any judge in China” then talk to any judge in Australia.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:49 am
Sorry. what I mean is “The CCP flag is bloody”
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:55 am
If you were born in China and went to primary school in China then you all swore alligence to the CCP blood flag.
Thats why we say quit the Ccp otherwise when heavens destroy it they will take you down with it.
Yes some judges in Australia have been sucessfully agreeing to arrest any CCP offical who comes to Australia who has been verified to have been comitting persecution and murder of FAlun Gong.In other words they can no longer hide behind their diplomatic immunity.. 4 of the politburro officials can no longer come to Australia without being arrested to face crimes agansit humanity charges…Can’t do that in communist led China now can you?
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:19 am
I was born in China, and went to primary/middle/high school, and college, in China, and I, like millions of other Chinese, did swore allegiance to Chinese flag, but never swore allegiance to CCP flag, which only happens when people join the CCP.
When you say “tortured and murdered for absolutely no good reason what so ever”, do you really mean “has been verified to have been comitting persecution and murder”?
“they can no longer hide behind their diplomatic immunity”. wow, the new world order has just began under the leadership of Hongzhi Li.
Criminals will be persecuted in China. But I doubt they can do anything toward diplomats, except expel them.
BTW, what exactly do you mean “heavens destroy it they will take you down with it”?
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:24 am
PLease dont be rude about Falun Gong or Li Hongzhi.
I did not say for no good reason you did.
The Chinese flag is the Ccp Flag.
read this article.
https://www.minghui.org/mh/articles/2006/8/5/134826p.html
道人之语蕴天机 七十年后终解迷
（老人口述，济南大法弟子整理）
【明慧网2006年8月5日】我今年八十一岁，这里讲的是我亲身经历的一桩往事。
我娘家住在济南市南部山区。七十年前我很小的时候，就记着家里住着一位修行的道人。此人四十开外，与我父亲年岁相仿。人很善良，他对同龄的人称呼总是小一辈，他称我父母为小爷爷、小奶奶，称我为小姑姑。
农忙时，他就帮我家中干些活，闲时就外出行医、化斋，晚上回来也不点灯，在屋内不知做些什么事情。经常说一些古怪离奇的话，我们都听不懂是什么意思，父亲常说他是磨道人（方言，一般指行为古怪）。
在我十二岁那年，记得最深的几件事情：有一天是晴空万里，他却不让我家人外出，但不说为啥。快到中午的时候天气大变，即刻狂风四起，飞沙走石，大树拔起折断，房子揭盖，对面伸手不见五指。大约一个小时左右，天才慢慢放亮，出来太阳。道人说：如果正面碰上这风头，人就会生场大病和扒几层皮，严重的甚至连命也难保。
这一年大旱，入伏的头三天才下雨，村里人都赶快抢种，道人却不让我们家种，他说：咱家播种用的东西先借别人使用，他们用完后，咱们再用也不迟。原来是三天后，又下了一场更大的雨，种上的也白种了，全让雨给冲坏了。大雨过后，地里很湿，他却催着赶快种，再不能耽误，否则种的庄稼就不好出苗了。
还有一次我家叔叔结婚，道人跟我爷爷商量：家里大喜的日子，能不能叫我师父也来喝个喜酒？爷爷说：你来家这么多年了，也未见过你师父，快让他来吧！
到了结婚的那天，直到客人都走了，家里人也没见到他的师父。爷爷问他：你怎么没把你的师父请来？他说：早来了，只不过人看不见他。
过了几年，道人对我父母说：我要走了，我不能在这里修行了，家里如果有事需要我帮忙的时候，可点上一根香叫我的名字。家里人似信非信。
又过了一年，父亲背后长了个恶疮，花了很多钱也治不好，这才想起了道人，想起了他说的话：“点一根香叫我的名字，我就到……”但他毕竟是个人，能有这么灵验吗？家里人也顾不得这么多了，试试吧。
晚上奶奶拿了一把香在院子里点上后，叫着道人的名字快来。当时是寒冷的冬天，天还没亮的时候听见有人敲门，开门后一看是道人，只见他满头大汗，棉衣都被汗浸透了。第一句话就问家里出了什么大事？母亲把父亲的病情说了。他看了看父亲的恶疮后说没事，好治。然后把恶疮挖掉，上了药。第二天，父亲就能下床了。
吃饭的时候他对我父母说，以后你们再不能给我打信了（就是烧香），我可承担不起一把香这样的礼仪。他临走时父亲问他什么时候再回来看我们？道人说：“等山上有了楼、井里水淌到家、灯头朝了下、山剩半边、人死后没人埋的时候，我再回来看你们。那时大变样，恐怕小叔叔和小姑姑能不能见着面还很难说。”父母听完后，脸色都变了，说人死没人埋，这不是场人间大灾难吗？就没有解此难的办法吗？经父母的多次追问后，道人才说：“脸上有印看不见，抹去印记度劫难。”全家都深深记下这些话来，就是难解其中的意思。
七十年后的现在，他说的前四句话都一一实现了，现在山上山下都有楼房，井里的水也淌到了家（因以前都是到水湾里，井里去挑水喝），灯头朝了下是指的电灯，以前都是用的煤油灯，所以灯头是朝上的。因为我们这里是山区，但过度开采，没有完整的，多数是半边。只有“人死后没人埋”这句还没应验。可我也始终没有解开“度劫难”那两句话，还是迷。我经常给孩子们说这件事，他们都不信，还不让我说这些话，说到时候人家怎么办咱们就怎么办。
不久前有一天早上开门时，门缝里夹着一张单子，我就让孩子们念给我听听上面写的是什么。当我听到“大纪元”三个字时，我忽然想起了道人原先常说大纪元是研究天象变化的，他预先就能知道刮风下雨和天灾人祸。当念到上面写着：“老天要灭共产党，凡是举手入过党、团、少先队及作恶多端的人，脸上都带有印记，眼前面临一场大灾大难，要想度过这一场大劫难，可用小名、别名、化名，向大纪元声明退出即可，就能抹去脸上的‘兽’字印记，永保平安。”
我又想起了道人说“脸上有印看不见，抹去印记度劫难”的话来。这一张法轮功真相的单子一下子给我解开了七十多年解不开的“迷”，怪不得法轮功的传单让大家退党、团、队，原来是在救人，让大家保平安啊！
我们全家明白后，都一一照办退出了党、团、队。我今天也为了救人，才叫孩子们写出这桩事来。别错过时机，当灾难真的到来，后悔晚矣！不要拿自己的生命开玩笑啊！
七十年前的道士预见了现在的人和事。我已经是八十多岁的老人了，如今也是子孙满堂。也希望各位父老乡亲们的亲朋好友都能平安无事，明白宁可信其有，不可信其无的老话。
(English Translation: http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2006/8/18/76997p.html)
成文：2006年08月04日 发稿：2006年08月05日 更新：2006年08月05日 12:11:31
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:37 am
re Mutant Jedi,
Oh so there is no evil in humanities conscience today? Of course illnesses are karma. We were made in the image of Gods whose bodies are perfect right? We have sickness aging and death we also fear cold heat hunger pain illness, emotional stuff…if that isn’t karma what is??
Honestly some people cannot think rationally at all. Why on earth would the Ccp persecute us if we were not good people? Evil does not persecute evil they stick together and help each other.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:57 am
Nothing rude about Falun gong and Hongzi Li, expect facts. If Australian arrests diplomats from China, I don’t know what will happen then. It must be the new order of the world. Don’t you agree?
“The Chinese flag is the Ccp Flag.” That’s something new. However, the URL you provided doesn’t work:
http://www.minghui.org uses an invalid security certificate.
The certificate is not trusted because the issuer certificate is unknown.
The certificate expired on 8/12/2005 11:34 PM.
(Error code: sec_error_unknown_issuer)
Looks like my Firefox doesn’t like “invalid security certificate”
Also re “The Chinese flag is the Ccp Flag.” Does that make everybody (born in China, with elementary education) a CCP?
I don’t quite get the lengthy story. Let me know if I’m wrong. Basically, the “destroy” seems pretty much the same as “不要拿自己的生命开玩笑”
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:05 am
Sorry for discriminating folks who can’t read Chinese. The Chinese characters “不要拿自己的生命开玩笑” in my previous post means “no kidding about my death”
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:09 am
Hey call it what you like but a new world with conscience is a good start.. heres a hypothetical question for you … if Hitlers face was still in the centre of Berlin where the Olympics were being held in 2008 would anyone go?
Answer NO…. The world at large dont know much about CCP .So i will expose them for their terror on the poor Chinese people so they can wake up see what they are doing to the peaceful and kind Falun Gong. Is this not the most compassioante thing to do?
I’ll print it in English then for those who cannot read Chinese.
After Seventy Years, A Taoist’s Riddle Becomes Clear
By a Falun Dafa practitioner from Jinan City, based on a narration from an elder
(Clearwisdom.net) I am an 81-year-old woman and I’d like to share some personal experience that happened in my past.
My parents lived in the mountainous region south of Ji’nan City. Seventy years ago when I was still a young girl, there was a Taoist cultivator living with us. He was very kind and was my father’s age, around 40 years old. Out of respect, he usually addressed others as if they were his elders. For example, he called my parents little grandpa and little grandma, and me little aunt.
He would help us out during busy farming seasons; other times, he wandered around as a doctor. When he came home, he wouldn’t light the lamp and we didn’t know what he was doing in the dark. He often said some strange words we didn’t understand. Father always said he was a strange person.
Several events deeply impressed me when I was twelve years old. It was a fine day with a clear sky, but the Taoist wouldn’t let us to go out and didn’t want to tell us the reason. At noontime, the weather suddenly changed. Within a short time, there was strong wind and sandstorm. Large trees were uprooted and the roofs of houses were lifted off. It became pitch-dark. After about an hour, light started to reappear. The cultivator told us: “If one faces directly into the wind, they will get sick and layers of their skin will peel off. In the most serious case, people will die.”
One year, there was a drought. After it rained for three days, villagers rushed to plant the seedlings, but the cultivator told us to wait. He said, “Let’s lend our planting equipment to others. It won’t be too late for us to plant ours when they finish planting. Three days later, there was another big rain and washed away everything people had planted. The field became soaking wet after the rain. He then urged us to plant without any delay, telling us that otherwise the crop would not come out well.
When my uncle got married, the cultivator asked my grandfather whether he could invite his teacher to have a drink. Grandfather told him: “You have been with us for so many years and we have never met your teacher. Let’s invite him over.”
After all the guests had left on the wedding day, we still didn’t see his teacher. Grandfather asked him: “Why didn’t you invite your teacher?” He answered: “He had come. It is because you can’t see him.”
A few years later, he said to my parents, “I am leaving now, because I can’t cultivate here any more. If there is anything else that needs my help, just burn incense and call my name.” Our family all thought this was odd.
A year later, my father had a malignant skin ulcer on his back. We spent a lot of money and still couldn’t cure it. We then remembered what the cultivator told us: “Light incense and call my name, then I will come.” He was a capable person after all, but could it be believable? Our family had no choice and we tried it.
During that night, grandma lit a bundle of incense and called out the cultivator’s name. It was a cold winter and before daybreak, we heard knocks on the door. When we opened the door, the cultivator stood there with perspiration all over. Even his cotton-padded clothes were soaked through with sweat. His first words were asking what had happened. Mother told him about father’s illness. After examining the skin ulcer, he said it was nothing serious and it was easy to cure. He carved out the skin ulcer and applied some medicine. Father was able to get up the next day.
During mealtime, he told my parents that they were not to burn the incense next time and that he couldn’t shoulder this kind of respect.
Father asked him when he would come back to see us. The cultivator said, “When there are buildings on the mountain, water from the well flowing in the homes, the heads of the lamps facing down, half of the mountain gone, and dead people unburied, then I will return to see you. If such big changes happen, I was afraid that even little uncle and little aunt might not get to see what happens.” Upon hearing these, father was scared and said that if dead people don’t get buried, isn’t it a catastrophe? Is there any way to divert the disaster? After my parents kept asking him, he then said, “People cannot see the beast’s mark on their faces. One can only erase the mark to escape the disaster.” All of us remember these words, but no one understood what they meant.
Today, after seventy years have passed, his first four sentences have materialized. We now have buildings in the mountain areas; have water connected to homes (people used to go to the stream or well to get water); the electric lamps are facing downward; and our mountains all have been mined so heavily that only half the mountain remains. Only the “dead people don’t get buried” hasn’t happened. And I still can’t understand the meaning of “escaping the disaster.” I always tell my children this story, but none of them believe it. They don’t even want me to repeat it anymore. They said that we’d do whatever others do.
One morning not too long ago, I opened the door and saw a pamphlet in the door crack. I asked my children to read it to me. When I heard the Epoch Times, I suddenly remembered that the cultivator had told us that something by that name could foretell celestial phenomena. It read, “When Heaven wants to annihilate the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), all the people who had declared to join the party, the Youth League and the Young Pioneers, and those who had done all kinds of evil, have a mark on their faces. To avoid the disaster, one can use a nickname or an alias to declare a withdrawal from the CCP and its associations to eliminate the beast’s mark on their faces and be saved.”
I then remembered what the cultivator said: “The mark on the face is not visible. One needs to erase the mark to avoid the calamity.” This pamphlet solved the mystery which had existed in my mind for seventy some years. It’s no wonder that the pamphlet tells people to make a withdrawal from the CCP in order to be saved.
Our whole family understood it and declared to quit the CCP and its organizations. To save people, I thus asked my children to write this story down. Don’t miss this opportunity. When the disaster comes, it will be too late to repent.
I am an eighty-some years old elder now and remembered that the cultivator had predicted the current events seventy years ago. I just hope that everyone will not put their lives at risk by not withdrawing from the CCP.
Posting date: 8/18/2006
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:11 am
Well said Mutant Jedi.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:50 am
I will not call it “a good start of world order” as you stated, instead, I will call it the end of world peace. Diplomats are protected by international law, which Australia has agreed.
“a hypothetical question for you … if Hitlers face was still in the centre of Berlin where the Olympics were being held in 2008 would anyone go?” Fresh from wikipedia, “A total of 49 nations attended the Berlin Olympics, up from 37 in 1932″, which was held “in Los Angeles, California, United States”. So the answer is yes. If history holds true, somebody will go.
“The world at large dont know much about CCP.” Can’t agree. Actually, communism is the ill child of the West where English/French is the dominant language, Christian is the dominant religion.
” Is this not the most compassioante thing to do?” Yes, but don’t lie, don’t interrupt donations efforts for the earthquake victims, especially don’t mess up with moan observance for the earthquake victims. (by no mean this implies you)
I haven’t get any answer regarding what exactly do you mean “heavens destroy it they will take you down with it”? Please use plain English or Chinese.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:20 am
Jana wrote:
“No one believed in Jesus at his time except the 12 disciples and then over quite a few years of him teaching maybe 300 people at the most. Only after he had been crucified and rose from the dead did the people begin to believe, same with Buddhism, He fought ideological battles with the Brahmanism religion all his life. He also had bigger following after he died. That simply shows how unenlightened humankind is if they cannot believe before they see and only believe after they see.This shows very poor enlightment quality .”
Apparently, your limited knowledge is what you see is what you believe. “Have you heard of Jesus Conspiracy – Turin Shroud & the Truth about the resurrection?” Jesus wasn’t raised from the dead; he was rescued and resuscitated by the intimate members of the Essene (Mary Magdalene, Simon Peter and John) and it’s proven from the imprint of “Turin Shroud” which was wrapped around Jesus Christ after his body was taken down from the cross and brought to the tomb. Here’s short paragraph from the book,
In passages in Mark and Luke, the women at the tomb was told about the disappearance of Jesus by the men clad in white, in the light of what we have learned. Mark (16:6) wrote, ‘And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen, he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.’ This is comparable to Matthew (28:6), although there the actual events are given are given a fairytale setting with theatrical angel magic, an earthquake and petrified tomb guards. The terse remark of the whiterobed men in Luke (24:5) asking why they seek a living person among the dead, is as clear as can be. Jesus lived, he was rescued, he had no business in a tomb any more, the living belong among the living. He had gone ahead to galilee, where his followers could see him. We have already shown how Jesus had great difficulty in convincing the disciples of his presence in the flesh. The reason for this is twofold. First, the majority of the disciples had not been told about the resuscitation attempt, and so were convinced that they were looking at a dead person or a spirit. And secondly the first Christian theologians started to take over at the supposed deadth by crucifixion of Jesus: according to the official dogma the story of the human individual Jesus ended there, and in its place came the story of Christ – the mythically glorified Reality. It’s no wonder the Christianity as they called it were full of deceit by the first Christian theologians to mystify Jesus rather than to follow his teachings. http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Conspiracy-Turin-Shroud-Resurrection/dp/1852304855/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214979159&sr=8-3
And for your information, at around the age of thirteen, Jesus followed the ancient Silk-road towards India and there he studied living Buddhism. He adopted its tenets and became a spiritual master himself. (Read Jesus lived in India, Holger Kersten). http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Lived-India-Before-Crucifixion/dp/0143028294/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214979159&sr=8-1
“Sorry to tell you this but Buddhism is in Chaos now too- same with Christianity. The law from those religions no longer works does it? Chaos and imorality is everywhere in the Temples and Churches. The Buddha did not write down the scriptures and many years later they were written down by lesser monks who only could write what they understood.Buddha only left the precepts as the guide nothiong more . All the scriptures were written by lesser humans.”
Then, how did Li Hongzhi receive his Buddha Fa? From the book or from even lesser monks after many generations later? If Buddha Fa is different from Buddhist’s dharma, then what is the source of Falun Gong’s Buddha Fa how was it preserved and transmitted? Have you ever raised the question to your Master?
“We can respect other teachings we just cannot cultivate in more than one teaching at a time until we enlighten in that school. You have mixed way too many teachings together so which Master or Buddha will save you? ”
That shows how you master had controlled you and making him Godlike glorification to miraculously help you and carry you to lala land and not relying on your own effort to reach enlightenment. This is all conceptual mind thinking and every thought projections are just illusions. You believe I cannot be saved by my Masters or Buddha and I don’t need to be relying on them to save me because I have tested and contemplated of every Truthful teachers and follow them and reject those teacher when I studied that they were full of delusions. If you are expecting Enlightenment (Consummation) is the final target like “I am home” or “I have reached the end of marathon finish line”, then good luck with your attachment to reach your target.
“This is the dharma ending time and the man that turns the law wheel or dharma wheel is here. Enlighten to it . Do not slander Falun Dafa, even your teacher”
I didn’t slander truthful teacher. I just expose deluded teacher. But it’s all right to question your teacher with due respect and it’s acceptable with Sakyamuni and every truthful teachers. Yes the man that turns the law wheel or dharma wheel is here and he is the new Buddha when udumbara flower bloom on this earth (Falun Gong spin).
udumbara flower according to Falun Gong ( I wonder why those photos are not taken with Macro zoom and I think someone with the macro zoom should take the picture of udumbara flower and enter the photo contest at NTD will win big prize http://photo.ntdtv.com/)
http://images.google.com/images?q=udumbara%20flower%20falun%20gong&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=DVFA,DVFA:1970–2,DVFA:en&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7mycKWApIc
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2007/9/2/89172.html
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2007/8/18/88700.html
What is actually lacewing egg
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=lacewing+egg&spell=1
http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2007/06/20/flowers-grow-on-steel-pipe-in-china.htm
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:40 am
Jana wrote:
“Of course illnesses are karma. We were made in the image of Gods whose bodies are perfect right? We have sickness aging and death we also fear cold heat hunger pain illness, emotional stuff…if that isn’t karma what is??”
Go and read the bible correctly. Oh… I forgot you are forbidden to learn teaching from other schools until you reach enlightenment from one school. No wonder you have no clue of what you are writing…
“We were made in the image of Gods”? What is that? Christianity is monotheist as in “God” and I have never heard of “We were made in the image of Gods”. That’s what happen when Falun Gong try to borrow terms and phrases from other religions and use them without fully understand what they are used for or meaning of the words. Sad…
“Of course illnesses are karma. We have sickness aging and death we also fear cold heat hunger pain illness, emotional stuff…if that isn’t karma what is??”
According to you statement and logic, then Sakyamuni Buddha did not reach “Nirvana” and cleared his karma because he passed away at the age of 80. Hmm. this must be from your teacher Li and no wonder he claimed that he has more power than Sakyamuni Buddha. I wonder whether he can be immortal and won’t die and live on this earth forever. That will be amazing thing to watch and maybe I will die before him and will not witness in this lifetime of the most amazing things happen on this earth besides udumbara flower booming.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:04 am
re Kungfupanda
Diplomats must not break international laws that they have agreed to abide by. They must never break any law otherwise they will face the punishments accordingly. Now you are really showing your support of an evil that was so huge it threatened to destroy the world. Now its small and puny and doomed to destruct.
If you support an evil regime that took power of a nation thru violence and war and continues today to persecute innocentgood people, then when the heavens destroy it you will also go down with it as you have been agreeing with what it is doing. The only way to remove that mark of the beast from your soul is to peacefully non violently resign fromthe Ccp; in otherwords turn you back on it comlpletely to have a good future.
Dont you lie a; Falun Gong would not stop donations being given to the earthquake survivors. What we would say is make sure that your donations will go to the survivors and not some crooked CCp offical. Maybe you misunderstood that point.
Communism is the ill child of the Soviet Union formly know as Russia…
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
Specul8r,
Go and read the old testament . We were made in image of our Gods. Each race of people was made in the image of their own God. My Gosh is that so hard a concept to understand?? Imagine how many religious wars and millions of lives that could have been saved if religious fanatics and that includes some people calling themselves Christians understood that truth.?
Wouldn’t you have every one respecting each other then instead killing each other in the name of their God?
How deluded humankind is.
Buddha Shakyamuni was not a cultivater he was a Tathagatta Buddha. He taught the precepts but never imparted any Buddha law bacuse the people of those days were simple beings only.. Those who came after him messed up that particular cultivation way for the future Buddhists. .Nothing lasts for ever unchanged. New enlightened beings come when humankind is always in deep moral decay.That is now.
Teacher Li has never claimed to have more power than anyone. He is not hotheaded nor a cultivater. I do not know where you get your information from but it is not from any genuine Falun Dafa site.So dont waste my time and others insulting what you do not understand while using incorrect slanderous lies written about Falun Dafa and Teacher Li from ignorant and probably backed CCP sites. You have no credibilty at all on this matter.
Anyway you sais you were not going to write anymore to me. I thinks is wise if you do stop. Like i said .. you are doing yourself way too much damage and your own righteous teacher would have long ago left you for slandering Falun Gong so i dont know who is taking care of you now….a demon unfortunately.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Jana,
So what do you suppose that image of Gods mean to you? How much do you understand Christianity? Christian do not have Gods; they only have one God, the heavenly father. Shallow understanding and quote here and quote there won’t make you an expert. Your conceptual mind is full of ignorance and just like all other Falun Gone practioners, their ego is way about their head.
As I have said before, there is no such thing as BUDDHA FA or BUDDHA LAW; there is only Dharma. Your Falun Dafa cultish organization is the one trying to blame India for destroying and driving Buddhism out of India and created the false impression that Hindu religion and Buddhism are in conflict. How deluded Falun Dafa is. Falun Dafa may fool some people as ignorant as you but they cannot fool kind hearted people in the world.
Buddha Shakyamuni was not a cultivator? He was a Tathagatta Buddha? I suppose Buddha Li told you? More twist and lie? Buddha Sakyamuni has highest wisdom and he understand humanity so well. Go and study what Tathagata (pay attention to the correct spelling) means here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tath%C4%81gata . Tathagata means ‘reality as-it-is” from that website. So, why should he teach garbage of Li’s doctorine where ‘reality as-it-is-not’?
Your Falun Dafa website clearwisdom.net has all the information about your teacher’s self-promoting highest level status… even higher than Buddha Sakyamuni claim by putting others down. I didn’t make it up nor did I get it from CCP.
I wrote to you because out of my compassion to point out to your ignorant and arrogant attitude towards others is damaging your soul. May you find your way back home soon.
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:39 am
Re Dana,
“Diplomats must not break international laws that they have agreed to abide by. They must never break any law otherwise they will face the punishments accordingly.”
That’s right. Diplomats must not break international laws. Wait a minute; is it the Chinese government has agreed to, and is trying to persecute corrupted official? In other words, you’re actually helping the “evil government” to persecute corruption.
PS, Your CCP Cultural Revolution style rhetoric “any law” wouldn’t help you to make your case.
“Now you are really showing your support of an evil that was so huge it threatened to destroy the world. Now its small and puny and doomed to destruct.”
I see another example of CCP Cultural Revolution style rhetoric. No, by laying out facts doesn’t mean my preference or my endorsement.
“If you support an evil regime that took power of a nation thru violence and war and continues today to persecute innocent good people”
Anybody here support the idea to take over a government with violence?
However, I still find it hard to believe that “innocent good people” were persecuted. I’m no lawyer, but my common sense says no. Tell me the percentage of people in China that fits your description of “innocent good people “. Do Australia lawyers buy in that? Which actually circles back to my very initial question to you: Jennifer, do you really believe “tortured and murdered for absolutely no good reason what so ever”?
“when the heavens destroy it you will also go down with it as you have been agreeing with what it is doing.”
I object that you use the word “you” here. I take it offensive. Before you learn to respect others, including those who may not agree with you, you absolutely have no right to make accusation like that.
Australia has formal diplomatic relation with Chinese government, It’s a formal endorsement. Does that constitute agreeing with what it is doing? Or should Australia denounce the wrong doing of CCP and break the diplomatic relationship?
You still haven’t answer my question regarding what exactly “heavens destroy it they will take you down with it”
“The only way to remove that mark of the beast from your soul is to peacefully non violently resign fromthe Ccp; in otherwords turn you back on it comlpletely to have a good future.”
Any CCP here?
“Dont you lie a; “. No I don’t lie. You haven’t denied that Falun gong lies.
“Falun Gong would not stop donations being given to the earthquake survivors. What we would say is make sure that your donations will go to the survivors and not some crooked CCp offical.”
When Falun gong follower waive their anti-CCP and anti-China banners in front of the donations workers, especially when there is a Chinese word “哀”(moan grievance), that fits my definition of interruption of donation drive, and extreme disrespect of the dead. Want to look for the picture? look no further than Falun gong’s web site. Just in case you couldn’t find it, I have a cached copy for you. Having said that, I had the same feeling about crooked CCP officials. However, that should never prevent kind hearted persons from making donations. Angels all over the world have being reaching out for help, weather it’s a helping hand, a prayer, or a generous donation. Count the money pouring in to the disaster area. Corruption happens everywhere, including Red Cross. So, are you going to sit in front of Red Cross headquarters, telling donors about the corruption of Red Cross?
By the way, the Dalai Lama offered official condolences to the victims.
“Maybe you misunderstood that point.”
No, I did not misunderstand that. It’s on the news media large and small, including Falun gong’s web site.
“Communism is the ill child of the Soviet Union formly know as Russia…”
The key founder of communism, Karl Heinrich Marx, was born in the Kingdom of Prussia, former German empire. His father was a Christian. So, my statement about communism is true. Russia and China were not that civilized to have the “extremely advanced” ideology at that time.
Look at what the Western entrepreneurs, such as McDonald, Wal-Mart, General Motors, Ford Motor Company, etc, and especially the Olympic Committee, are doing. They are actually improving the living and working condition there for the ordinary people, and in the mean time helping improving the human rights, I should say political rights. Keep in mind that living and working condition are also the key ingredient of human rights according to UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:53 am
Re Dana,
I still haven’t got any response about what exactly do you mean “heavens destroy it they will take you down with it”?
Now, please excuse my wild imagination after reading your story “After Seventy Years, A Taoist’s Riddle Becomes Clear”, which I take it as a hint from you.
That story brings back my remote memory about the scarce tactics of some Eastern religious to bring in new converts. I have to admit that Falun gong does not hold the trade pattern of that scarce tactics. As American Humanist Association stated, it is “incompatible with our dedication to reason and science”.
According to the story, “To avoid the disaster, one can use a nickname or an alias to declare a withdrawal from the CCP and its associations to eliminate the beast’s mark on their faces and be saved.” …” When the disaster comes, it will be too late to repent.” So the earthquake was the “heavens destroy” CCP, and those who didn’t declare a withdrawal died in the earthquake was the result of what you stated “take you down with it”. Are you sure that all the people died in the earthquake did not withdrawal from CCP. What about those dead who might actually had withdrawn from CCP? What about those children, those school age kids who died in the earthquake. Do you believe your heaven had taken down those innocent children too?
Now I understand why Falun gong took to the street of Flushing, NYC, to celebrate the earthquake, to prove to the world that “Falun Dafa Hao”.
Frankly speaking, tell me who else in this world share your Falun gong’s view?
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:46 am
re Kungfupanda,
Wrong again on all understandings and accounts. The view we share with many good epople in the world is one of saving lives . The persecution is not just an assault against Falun Gong pracititioners physical bodies it is an assault against humnanity, kindness and good conscience everywhere.
The heavens take down evil that destroys faith in them everywhere. it just requires enough people in the world to support that and it is happening.
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:51 am
specular8,
Christianity may have only one God but it is not the sole righteous religion inthis world.Then there is Buddhism, Judaism, Daosim, and now Falun Dafa; so please do not show your ignorance of such subjects in the name of one God only… One God only means cultivating in that Gods practice only and not mixing cultivation methods until one has consumation. Since Jesus left and Buddha left no one has achieved right fruit status or returned to their heaven.
July 4th, 2008 at 3:28 am
Re Jana,
You have stated many many times that Falun gong were “tortured and murdered for absolutely no good reason what so ever”, and there are human right issues in China. But that doesn’t give you the right to avoid the questions in this blog. Blank denial wouldn’t help you with your arguments. That’s not the logical way of discussing issues. Give your best answers to the questions one by one. Don’t just reference the opinionated articles from Falun gong’s media outlets; show something from accredited news media channels.
You stated that you and Falun gong are saving lives. Then tell me how many lives that Falun gong has saved in the earthquake. Tell me how many children and school kids that Falun gong has saved in the earthquake.
“The heavens take down evil that destroys faith in them everywhere.”
You’re not referring that innocent children were also “destroyed” by your heaven?
“it just requires enough people in the world to support that and it is happening.”
So, it’s not bloody enough to call off your heaven to stop the earthquake in light the massive lose of human lives, including innocent children and school age kids?
As you suggested in your story “After Seventy Years, A Taoist’s Riddle Becomes Clear”, tell me how many people have been killed by your heavens for not following the suggestions in that story. Tell me how many innocent children and school age kids were killed by your heavens for not following the suggestions in that story.
July 4th, 2008 at 3:51 am
you guys can argue back and forth with all the logic and facts, to me, the choice is really simple. I am on the flg side.
This is a free country, you can believe what ever you want as long you don’t hurt anybody. So far so good, flg’s belief hurt no one but created bunch of resilient followers.
On the other side, I don’t like communist, gladly i am not the only one. so I support anyone who dare to go against communist, in this case, the only one group has some action is flg so i support them.
I feel pretty soon, people will realize and appreciate the bravery and relentlessness about flg. in the end, flg is here to stay, and the communist will go down in history.
July 4th, 2008 at 4:51 am
Re Kungfupanda
I have answered all of your questions many times , its just you don’t understand the answers and or don’t agree with them or believe what I am saying But to ease your mind and others on this blog I will answer them one by one as you have asked for in your previous comment ok here goes
You said:
Don’t just reference the opinionated articles from Falun gong’s media outlets; show something from accredited news media channels. The articles from Epoch Times are not opinionated we present the facts and just so you know The Epoch Times is accredited. WE covered Apec meetings in Australia and meetings between Bush and Hu Jintao we are an accredited news outlet. So stop slandering us. Other wise we will never get anywhere achieving your understanding of Falun Gong or The Epoch Times. Okay?
Kingfupanda said:
You stated that you and Falun gong are saving lives. Then tell me how many lives that Falun gong has saved in the earthquake. Tell me how many children and school kids that Falun gong has saved in the earthquake.
I say
Diasters happen all over the world.
That is beyond our control as human’s right?
But when a great evil comes into the world and destroys peoples good nature and their belief in Gods and even murders them for believing in Gods Buddha’s and Dao’s, then we who are being persecuted must help these poor blind people see again. To help a destroyed nation wake up to understanding that this is evil and must be stopped not thru bloody revolution and murder but thru rationality and compassion and love for your fellow human beings future, . So far nearly 40 million people have quit the Ccp. Thru rationally waking themselves up to the facts. Why would anyone persecute good people who strive to be good people by embracing truth compassion and tolerance? There could only be one reason alone. The same reason is why the Ccp destroyed all the culture, art and religious icons during the Cultural Revolution and murdered 80 million Chinese people over the last 60 years. The Ccp has not changed one bit. Oh sure some 400 million Chinese have mobile phones cars apartments and good money now. But how long will that last? A few decades? What have the Chinese people had to do to achieve that? Lose their morality and good conscience -the very essence that made the Chinese people respected all over the world?
Those 40 million who have resigned from the Ccp and its related organisations have chosen a good future for themselves thanks to the Falun Gong practitioners in China who have risked their physical lives, endured torture, loss of income and family life to save the Chinese people.
Out side of China we have in a short time collected 1 million signatures of VIPs and everyday people to call for an end to the persecution of Falun Gong in China. IN Australia last week the Federal Govt senate passed a unanimously passed a motion/bill in parliament to call for an end to persecution of Falun Gong in China. The USA Senate, British and Canadian, Spanish senates have also done this. The world is waking up to the facts about this persecution and is doing something about it.
This is what Falun Gong practitioners mean by saving lives for a good future.
Kungfupanda said
“The heavens take down evil that destroys faith in them everywhere.”
You’re not referring that innocent children were also “destroyed” by your heaven?
I say
No of course not. The earthquake is sign for the CCP to stop committing evil on the Chinese people. The evil I am referring to is the Ccp who are persecuting not only Falun Gong but all Chinese and the worlds people from knowing the truth so as to maintaining their power over Chinese people .When in fact the Ccp is not God or a Buddha or a Dao. Any illegitimate Govt that take power thru the barrel of a gun is deemed evil of the all heavens. And they will be taken down. But a person supports this regime after knowing the facts about what it is doing then they also will not have a good future. If they resign from the ccp and turn their back on it in their hearts then they are no longer aligned with the evil and will have good future.
Kunguf Panda said
“it just requires enough people in the world to support that and it is happening.”
So, it’s not bloody enough to call off your heaven to stop the earthquake in light the massive lose of human lives, including innocent children and school age kids?
I say
Human beings cannot tell the Gods what to do.. WE can only help other human beings down here to understand that it is not man or the Ccp that is in control but the Gods , Buddha’s and Dao’s.
Throughout history human civilisation has always experienced natural disasters and misfortune. These so called acts of nature usually happen when the morality of the nation/world is not longer acceptable to the Gods who take care of us. These are warnings.. What civilisation would not take heed of these as warnings before this scientific led civilisation. Science cannot save you to the heaven or send you to hell. Humans must get things into perspective. And begin to believe in their Buddha or God again. We must improve our morality and respect for each other. Falun Gong is achieving this and that’s why the Ccp persecutes us.
Kungfupanda said
As you suggested in your story “After Seventy Years, A Taoist’s Riddle Becomes Clear”, tell me how many people have been killed by your heavens for not following the suggestions in that story. Tell me how many innocent children and school age kids were killed by your heavens for not following the suggestions in that story.
I say
I think I have answered this question above . If you believe then quit the Ccp while you can before the heavens take you down with it, because I do know that for sure the Ccp will disintegrate. Quit now for a bright future.
Please read the 9 Commentaries which will show you what in history the ccp has done to the Chinese nation.
Read the 9 commentaries at
http://ninecommentaries.com/
Nearly 40 million have quit the Ccp and all its affiliated organizations.
July 4th, 2008 at 5:04 am
Thank you Lee for your understanding and support. This stance that you have taken aligns you with all that is good in humanity and this is what will save you to a bright and wonderful future.
To the rest of you this is persecution is not just contained in Ccp led China. it is everywhere all over the world. When our polticiasn do not stadn up for what is right and kowrtow to the Ccp for trade and money or our mainstream medis does report the facts becasue teh ccp wont gove them pass for the Olympics etc…. you get the picture.. Everyone on the planet is has to make a choice and it is our responsibility to give th facts so each and everyone can make that conscience choice to support good in the world.
It is no coincidence that Falun Gong practtioners live in 80 different countries all around the world and we have started up our own 3 media in 26 countries because most mainstream media including TV will not report truthfully on this matter . Becasue of money trade and business with China.This is no coincidence either. Like i said previoulsy this is more than persecution of the physical body, it is persecution of the humanity, kindness and conscience all over the world..
July 4th, 2008 at 7:26 am
Re Lee,
True that this is a free country. However, it doesn’t give anybody the right to lie, to disrespect the dead, to use the devastating earthquake to further its political agenda. Nobody in this world would do that to the victims, the dead, including children and school age kids.
Tell me what kind of people would do that? The Dalai Lama offered official condolences to the victims. Where’s Falun gong’s? All I can find on the internet was the happy faces shouting “Falun Dafa Hao”
That’s fine that you decided to side with FLG. But I wish you’d not interrupt donation drive for the earthquake victims. Also, look for the Chinese character “哀” (moan observance). Pay minimum respect to the dead, including children.
http://en.epochtimes.com/news_images/2008-5-22-leadex.jpg
Also wish you’d keep yourself away from “天灭中国”, which I care a lot.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/05/30/nyregion/falun600.jpg
Re “Falun gong’s belief hurt no one”. Look at the achieve by cult expert Rick A. Ross Institute http://www.rickross.com/groups/falun.html
— “Li Hongzhi forbids followers to seek medical attention”. Tell me how many people have died due to lack of timely medical attention. Because of that, tell me how much of tax payer’s dollars was wasted to treat Falun gong followers, where tones of tax payer’s dollars could have been saved if only they seek medical assistance earlier.
— “Li Hongzhi has stated that his followers could stop speeding cars using the powers of his teachings” Do you know that children are being preached by Falun gong. Tell me that Falun gong never taught children about that super nature power.
—”Falun Gong follower Chen Gao, set herself on fire at Tiananmen Square and is now horribly disfigured and crippled.” Innocent people are been used for its political agenda. Tell me that it’s not true.
Re “there are some pro communist Chinese people here in the states.” Frankly speaking, I don’t agree. Look, even the communists don’t like communism. See how fast they have changed during the past several decades, from communism to socialism and to now capitalism (at least in economy). From what I can see, majority Chinese American want people in China, together with their friends, relatives, to have a peaceful, prosperous live.
FLG is not the only group that takes on CCP. Look at 中国民主正义党 cdjp.org, and the exert from the web site: “《大纪元》时报刊登法拉盛当地华人抗议法轮功照片，将抗议者统统说成是‘中共特务’和中共收买的‘帮凶’，这是整个在美国的‘法轮功’的集团行为，所以目前在美国的这些‘法轮功’是一个在假‘法轮功’控制下的政治集团。”
我们可以这样说，对于三种“法轮功”来说，我们对于第一种应该尊重他们的信仰自由，对于第二种，他们实际上不是真正的“法轮功”，可是中共也对他们加以迫害，他们觉得“冤枉”，我们表示理解和同情，我们反对中共对这两种“法轮功”进行镇压。
但是，对于第三种“法轮功”，他们有两种可能，他们要么是地地道道的“邪教”，他们还有可能是真正的中共特务集团控制之下，目的是要破坏民众对前两种“法轮功”的同情，目的是要破坏民众支持前两种“法轮功”反对中共镇压和迫害的人权活动。因此，向前两种“法轮功”人士和民众揭露第三种“法轮功”，即假的“法轮功”，是维护“法轮功”向中共政府要求信仰自由、练习自由和反对镇压迫害的重要人权活动。”
July 4th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
panda,
I’ve been around long enough so the Chinese communist can’t fool me that easily.
On the flg issue. i don’t know much about belief other than their preached 3 principles and few exercises, but what you are giving me is the same crap from chinese communist bogus propaganda. Tell me something new about flg other than “‘evil cult’ “self immolation”, “no allow drugs”, “political”, we’ve heard it all. Normally if from another source, i maybe believe part of it, since its from communist, i believe none of what they said.
1. you are right not to disrespect the dead, but who said flg doesn’t respect the dead. I see them carry dead ones’ picture killed by the communist all the time. in terms of humanity, they have been supporting the chinese followers aboard for many years which way more than the one time earthquake charities around. in reality, i don’t believe flg doesn’t care about earthquake victims.
2. the picture link from ny time cut off the last word which i think it is “gong” not “guo”.
What I learned and observed the past few years is flg is a very special group, they are china’s real hope.
on the flg issue, people can stay neutral, support, or follow the communist, i suggest choose your decision wisely.
July 4th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Re lee,
I too have been around long enough so that Chinese communist, as well as Falun Gong, can’t fool me, not a single bit. Keep in mind that Falun gong is a religious and religious entity. The teaches are the very first step of the bait and switch tactics to get new converts.
Regarding the craps that I presented, none of them were from communist bogus propaganda. Unless you regard American Humanist Association, http://www.bible.ca/falun-gong-falun-dafa-zhuan-falun.htm, as well as Rick A. Ross Institute, all as communist bogus propaganda. Which I don’t think so.
1. That doesn’t mean Falun gong respect the dead. If true, they should also carry the picture of the earthquake victims. Instead, they carried the pictures of the dead allegedly murdered by China government. To me, it’s a political show off, in light the devastating earthquake.
And they should never interrupt earthquake relief efforts. They should never mess up with the grievance, even if they were their enemies, let along these dead children. They should never parade down the streets of NYC, shouting “Falun Dafa Hao”, while people are dying in the rubble.
2. NY Times cut out two sensitive characters in the picture, one is “gong” as you mentioned, other is “guo”. I grew up in China. Nobody can fool me on that. That’s extremely anti-China, not just the government, it also spear headed toward Chinese people, which happened I care a lot.
Falun gong is not the real hope of China. Read the American Humanist Association’s open letter to Falun gong: “Though the Falun Gong in the United States claim “tolerance” as a primary principle, the Chinese word for this principle (Ren) is more appropriately translated as “forbearance;” in this case, forbearance as a form of resignation, a survival skill for getting through suffering”. My understanding is that there’re two issues here. One is lie, that should have never been miss-translated. The other is revenge, inline with the allegation of intolerance. Unless Falun gong clears the major allegations surfing on the web, it will not get my endorsement as the hope of China.
I had almost forgotten about Falun until the Flushing incident. My curiosity led me all over the internet, which then strengthened my opinion about Falun gong as one of the Eastern religions of lie trying to use whatever means to get it back.
July 5th, 2008 at 7:25 am
re Kungfupanda,
said-
“That doesn’t mean Falun gong respect the dead. If true, they should also carry the picture of the earthquake victims. Instead, they carried the pictures of the dead allegedly murdered by China government. To me, it’s a political show off, in light the devastating earthquake.”
I say ” So we cannot commerate our dead not killed by accident but by brutal murder senseless murder innocent victums murdered by the ones you try to protect the evil Ccp..
Panda said
“And they should never interrupt earthquake relief efforts. They should never mess up with the grievance, even if they were their enemies, let along these dead children. They should never parade down the streets of NYC, shouting “Falun Dafa Hao”, while people are dying in the rubble.”
I say
We were not interferring with the victims or the mourning of the victims. The mobsters from the Ccp came to us stirring up trouble shouting out lies that we were happy the earthquake happened. Do you know that Chinese counsellor that organsied this is now in trouble and New Yorkers are calling for impeachment of this CCp mobster.
Our millions of FAlun Gong practitioners are imprisioned in slave labor camps, blood tested to match waiting recipients for their organs and then have their organs taken from them while still alive sold and into the overseas recipient.The Olympics are coming now and what a show that will be to try and impress the worlds leaders and other countries. What a joke because as long as this genocide continues against all good people in China then communsit led china is not better than North Korea, Burmese Junta, Robert Mugabe and the warring Sudense– jsut savages dressed up in glitery fake clothing,
This tradgedy is what is happening in China to the brave Chinese people. The Ccp rules with the rule of Man and is hungry and will do anything to keep power at all cost – even murder the very best of Chinese and it is the Ccp who do not care for the Chinese children and parents in the earhtquake. OPen you eyes. FAlun Gong is not the enmey. The Ccp is . I love the Chinese people, their history their culture and most of all because they broughtFalun Gong back to life after 5000 years.
July 5th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Noe of these news media/organizations are associated with CCP
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/06/nyregion/06splendor.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Chinese+New+Year+splendor&st=nyt&oref=slogin
http://rambodoc.wordpress.com/2007/09/17/is-the-falun-gong-going-wrong/
http://www.cicus.org/info_Eng/artshow.asp?ID=6492
http://www.myownmind.com/falungongteaches.cfm
July 6th, 2008 at 3:17 am
Is that all you can find? Really what you have failed to understand is that this is a persecution of all humanities conscience. Why do soom media report the truth and others not? Could it be that the owners of that media do big business with Ccp led China? Why is that only some polticians speak out with therir good conscience and other remain silent> Could it be they also do big business with CCp led China.
This is a persecution against humanity, kindness and conscience all over the world. Luckily FAlun Gong are telling the facts to the world and they are waking up.their conscience is waking up .. Like i said our Federal Australian senate voted unanimously in supprt of ending the persecution of Falun in China…
July 6th, 2008 at 6:41 am
panda,
here we go again back and forth try to get to the bullhorn. what you try to convince me here? flg is bad? communist is good? let’s get rid of flg? in the eyes of communist, flg is the “evil cult’ and the most dangerous enemy, in the eyes of flg followers, flg is the most precious thing in life so they won’t give it up no matter what. In my eyes, since I don’t like communist, anyone who oppose them is my friend.
Look, the communist have been trying to get rid of flg for many years and failed, they the fire starter, those links you sent wouldn’t exist if communist didn’t advertised the world about flg, we wouldn’t see flg on the street if communist didn’t get too extreme with the persecution, now if you don’t like to see flg’s activities and fed up, maybe you should either join the communist with their effort, or tell the communist to make peace, so flg won’t have any good reasons to get into “politics” and we may no longer see them on the street. after all, it’s the communist started all the trouble for you, me, and flg.
okay, let’s talk about the reality, flg is legal here, the last time I checked it is legal to practice everywhere except china, as matter fact, the congress pass a resolution to protects them, don’t tell me the congressmen are all idiots and would want to come up with a law to protect ‘evil cults.’ There must be good reasons. on the other hand, we all know communist is not welcomed in the states and flg opposes communist, so if you are in the state, think before choose your sides.
You know about flg’s quitting ccp activities right? flg’s message is simple, “if you not happy about the government, just quit it”, first of all, they got some good reasons, second, they know there plenty people not happy in china, third, they make the procedure simple and you don’t need to join them, think about it, it sounds ridiculous, but it’s really genius, simple yet effective. We all know communist forces everyone swears to serve them unconditionally in china since elementary school, I know I did and now I quit, although I wasn’t a member, but just announce that I fed up with the communist makes me feel good, and you know what, flg helped me with that. Back to my point, weather you like it or not, the situation right now is communist is crumbling down with troubles all over, but flg is gaining the momentum. and for those who are sicken tired of the communist party in china, flg is their hope.
For the sake of argument and come back to the bullhorn, I would have to disagree flg is disrupting earthquake relief. why? because I asked them about it and they denied the intention of disrupting, so I believed them. simple as that.
Last thing, just curious, can you show me just one picture with flg’ sign saying:” tian mie zhong guo”?
July 6th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Surprise~
Harry Wu (Wu Hongda) and CICUS do not do business with China. Harry Wu was a dissident in China in the 70s and released from Laogai in February 21, 1979. Why did he expose Sujiatun’s hoax? His human conscience even though he was sympathetic with Falun Gong movement. Do you know him at all? I bet you don’t and here’s his biography: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22295
Good luck defending youself.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:06 am
I encourage everyone to read J. Krishnamurti’s books and especially “The IMPOSSIBLE QUESTION” book (first edition published in Great Britain, 1972), all the informations you are looking for is explained precisely with simple contemplation and understanding. Dalai Lama and many other spiritual and religious leaders as well as famous Quantum Physicist David Bohm had consulted him in many occasions.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:24 am
Harry Wu was a dissident that went back to CCp led China after 1999 where he was arressted and set free after only 3 weeks to go back to the USA to stirup trouble for FAlun Gong overseas…
This is story for the Buddhists and all relgious followers out there.
Here is a story of Korean Buddhist Monk Attained What He Had Longed for After Watching Divine Performing Arts Performance , he now has turned to Falun Gong .
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2007/8/2/88253.html
(Clearwisdom.net) In mid-May 2007, Divine Performing Arts, established in America, concluded its world tour. Among the 81 performances, three were held in South Korea in late April. These performances deeply touched the Korean people, whose culture was heavily influenced by the Chinese culture. Many Korean Buddhist monks and monks attended the performances in Korea. Why did these Buddhist cultivators attend these performances?
Caption: Buddhist monk Young-Kyu Oh practices the Falun Gong sitting meditation
Caption: Young-Kyu Oh and Beop-Ryun Cha studying one of the Falun Gong books
Mr. Young-Kyu Oh, 85, was one of the Buddhist monks who attended the Divine Performing Arts performance. He said, “I am no longer interested in any worldly matters. Since very young, I have watched very few performances. I did not see any merit in any art performance in the past, but the Divine Performing Arts performance is different from everything I have seen. This performance cannot be described as just an art performance because its content is much too profound. It is filled with meanings purported in cultivation. Its beauty is beyond words.”
Young-Kyu Oh shared that he couldn’t stop crying during the entire performance. To understand what linked him to the performance, we have to begin with Oh’s birth.
A Mother’s Dream During Her Pregnancy
Before Young-Kyu Oh was born, his mother had already given birth to four daughters. It was the greatest misfortune for a married woman in a country that values sons over daughters. A member of the family even suggested forcing her to leave. Therefore, Oh’s mother went to the Buddhist temple to worship Buddha and ask for a son. Oh’s mother then became pregnant again.
Before Young-Kyu Oh was born, his mother had a dream where Buddha descended from heaven and gave her a book. She also dreamed about a child dancing over water and jumping inside a fire. But, the child would not drown or burn. Oh’s mother decided that this must be a special child because she worshiped Buddha. She decided to have the child study in a Buddhist temple when it grew up.
A Childhood Longing
There was an elderly man in Oh’s hometown who was a house servant for King Kojong. Since the age of eight, Oh studied Chinese with him. At the time the man was already in his seventies. He studied Gyeok-Am Yu-Rok, a famous ancient Korean prophecy. An ancient Korean astronomer, Sa-Go Nam, wrote it down after a mysterious trip to Mount Kum Gang San. He was told and asked to record the prophecy by a divine being. Nam couldn’t decipher the prophecy. The written record is the Gyeok-Am Yu-Rok prophecy. The famous prophecy was named after Sa-Go Nam’s assumed name, Gyeok-Am.
The old man from Oh’s hometown taught Chinese and important principles. He once told Oh that if he could live beyond 70 years old, he would meet Buddha Maitreya who would be descending to the human realm and spreading the righteous Buddha Law. Then the world would become good again and there would be awe-inspiring changes, just as when heaven and earth were created. He told Oh that he would not live to see it happen. He also was childless and thought it to be a great pity. He said, “If you want to live long enough to meet Buddha Maitreya, you must be thoughtful of others at all times and pay filial respect towards your parents. You must not do anything illegal. You must respect everyone. The truth is that to be thoughtful of others is to be thoughtful of yourself.”
Young-Kyu Oh has always remembered these words. He has made a conscious effort to follow the old man’s advice. To be considerate and help people in need, such as carrying heavy bags for other people, has become second nature to him.
When Oh was little, one of his older sisters once made him a set of clothes for the New Year. Oh’s mother had passed away by then, and his family was not well off. Oh put on the new clothes and went to play with the neighborhood kids. When he arrived at one his playmates’ homes, he saw his little friend crying. The child’s father was addicted to gambling, leaving his mother to work as a seamstress to provide for the family. There was hardly enough income to put food on the table. When his neighborhood playmates wore new clothes for New Year, his family could not afford new clothes for her. Oh felt very sad for her, so he gave his new clothes to that child. He put his old clothes back on. Oh’s sister reproached him for it, but little Young-Kyu thought only of being a good person and living until the advent of the righteous Buddha Law.
Several Decades of Searching
Oh joined Buddhist temples, but the monks were only interested in soliciting alms. Seeing that the Buddhist temples were no longer a place for cultivation practice, Oh cultivated in a mountain cave. He also lived with a Taoist cultivator for some time. But, he discovered that the Taoist would throw tantrums easily over trivial matters despite the fact that he had cultivated for over 30 years. Oh decided that it would not be good for his cultivation, even if he stayed for a hundred years.
Oh searched for a genuine cultivation practice. When he was in his sixties, he decided to study the Buddhist scriptures and become a fully ordained Buddhist monk. He enrolled in a Buddhist college. One day a lecturer taught the class Nirvana Sutra, a collection of Buddha Dharma articles about what Shakyamuni had taught when he was about to reach nirvana. In his later years, Shakyamuni said that the Dharma he had taught for the past 49 years was false and is but a foundation for the genuine Dharma. He said that he would now tell his disciples the truth. In Nirvana Sutra, Shakyamuni talks about the Wheel-Turning King appearing in the Dharma-ending period. Oh said that he suddenly was on high alert when he heard the story.
Later, Oh went to a Buddhist temple in Koh Gen Do, where he continued to study and teach Buddhist scriptures. However, the Buddhist monks in the temple only chanted Buddhist scriptures and learned superficial meanings of the scriptures. Generally, it takes over 20 years to study all the Buddhist scriptures, but they took only a year. They flipped through the pages very quickly in class. Oh said, “Jealousy and avarice were rampant among the Buddhist monks in the temple. A Buddhist monk even forced us to eat meat. Later I left the temple and lived with a friend.”
His friend lives in a village near the old manor of Il-Sun Gang, the pioneer who established the Jeung San Do region. The village has about 2,000 households, and the elderly folks were Il-Sun Gang’s disciples. One time Young-Kyu Oh saw elderly folks pointing at farmland and shouting excitedly, “Buddha Maitreya has descended to the human realm! Why haven’t we heard about him?”
Oh was shocked. He asked, “What do you mean? Where is Buddha Maitreya?” They explained to him that Gang had once predicted that Buddha Maitreya would appear when the pine trees in front of the village turned into a mulberry farm and then rice paddies. Due to a road construction, the mulberry farm was converted to rice paddies.
“It was 1982. When I learned the prophecy was fulfilled, I told my friend, ‘There is no need for me to seek residence. I must travel to find Buddha Maitreya.’” Thus Oh bid farewell to his friend and wandered about in Korea, but he didn’t find Buddha Maitreya. Later, Oh suddenly remembered something Il-Sun Gang had said, “Bad luck would befall you if you seek Buddha Maitreya. If you stay put and cultivate your morality, Buddha Maitreya will come to find you.” Then Oh felt relaxed. he went to a Buddhist temple, where he endured hardships and cultivated himself. He kept thinking about improving himself.
Holy Law-Wheel King as Described in Buddhist Scriptures
Since 1988, Young-Kyu Oh has focused on studying the Nirvana Sutra. It is difficult to explain the content of Nirvana Sutra, but Oh thought that he had grasped the meanings and inner content. Therefore, he lectured on Nirvana Sutra, but very few people were able to understand his teachings. Nirvana Sutra mainly says that there is no righteous Buddha Law until the coming of the Holy Law-Wheel King. It says that Hinayana Buddhism is nothing more than preparation for the coming of the Holy Law-Wheel King. This was the most important message in Nirvana Sutra.
Nirvana Sutra says that there is only one Holy Wheel-Turning King in all of eternity and that there was no righteous Buddha Law until the coming of the Holy Wheel-Turning King. It also said that all thieves throughout the world would become good people when the Holy Wheel-Turning King comes to the human realm.
The Nirvana Sutra also says that the Holy Wheel-Turning King is instructing Bodhisattvas and greater Bodhisattvas, who will one morning show themselves to the world and shock the world’s people, when everything would change.
The Predestined Opportunity Arrived
According to Young-Kyu Oh, the purpose of his life was to wait for the righteous Buddha Law. It is said in Gyeok-Am Yu-Rok that the righteous Buddha Law will be officially spread in 1993 and will be spread around the world in 2005. It also says that one must not miss the opportunity to cultivate in the righteous Buddha Law and one must try to survive the change that will alter heaven and earth.
Gyeok-Am Yu-Rok also says that its prophecy might not be 100% accurate because Lord Buddha (Buddha Maitreya) will be the one who makes the ultimate decision. Therefore, what he will do may not be the same as the prophecy predicted. Knowing that one cannot reach consummation by following any of the existing cultivation schools, Young-Kyu Oh began to tell people his personal understandings of the Nirvana Sutra. While distributing the self-made compilations of his understanding, Oh waited for Buddha Maitreya to arrive.
One night Oh’s fellow cultivator, an elderly Buddhist nun named Beop-Ryun Cha, asked if Oh was certain that he would travel to Seoul the next day. If Oh were going to Seoul the next day, Cha would get up very early to make his breakfast. Oh told her that he decided it was not necessary to travel to Seoul and retired to his room.
But when he returned to his room, he somehow felt like going to Seoul again. he had a premonition that something wonderful was waiting for him. He decided that he shouldn’t stay at home, but he had already told Cha that he was not going. Oh had changed his mind twice, so he was embarrassed to tell Cha that he changed his mind again.
Finally Oh decided to cook some noodles for breakfast himself the next morning.
The next morning when Oh went to the kitchen, he was surprised that Cha had made breakfast for him. “Why did you make breakfast?” Oh asked out of curiosity.
Cha told Oh a mysterious story. Cha was sleeping when a young man looking like a high school student knocked on the door. It was most curious that the door and curtain suddenly became transparent, allowing Cha to see what was going on outside the door. She was about to open the door when the young man disappeared into thin air. Cha was very sleepy, so she didn’t think much about it before she went back to sleep again. Within a short time, the same young man knocked on the door again. Like the previous time, he knocked on the door a few times. Before Cha opened the door, he stopped knocking. By then, Cha was completely awake. She thought, “Perhaps it was a hint for me to make breakfast because Young-Kyu was going to Seoul? I’d better go make breakfast.”
The Wish Came True
Riding in the subway in Seoul, Oh saw a woman sitting across from his seat holding a book with a golden cover. Oh thought this must be a Buddhist scripture judging by its golden cover. But it did not look like any Buddhist scripture he had seen before. He bent over to check out the title of the book. It said Zhuan Falun on the cover. Oh was shocked and immediately remembered the Holy Wheel-Turning King descending to the human realm, as described in Nirvana Sutra. Except for the Holy Wheel-Turning King, who would have the temerity to claim that he is “turning the Wheel of Law?” Oh told the woman, “This is a very precious book!” The woman replied, “Would you like to read it?” Oh said, “Indeed, I would like to read it. But I cannot accept such a precious book for free. If you would give me your phone number, I will mail you the money for the book.”
Oh anxiously opened Zhuan Falun. The first thing he read was Lunyu. Young-Kyu Oh said, “I was so shocked that my mind turned blank. Its content is so profound that I felt as though I had seen the whole universe.”
As soon as he finished reading “Lunyu,” he telephoned Cha and told her, “Stop reading Nirvana Sutra from now on. I will present you with an incomparably precious book. From now on, study only this book.”
As soon as Oh returned to the temple, he showed Zhuan Falun to Cha. When Cha opened Zhuan Falun and saw Mr. Li Hongzhi’s photo, she was overcome with surprise. “This is the young man who woke me up in the morning.”
Since then, Beop-Ryun Cha has been cultivating in Falun Gong and conducting herself strictly according to Zhuan Falun. Cha said that she sees Teacher when she practices the sitting meditation and Teacher looks just as young as when she saw him the first time. Teacher looks as young as a high school student with one hand in his pocket.
Oh added, “Every time I read Teacher’s Hong Yin, I cannot stop crying. The only thing that occupies my mind is to have more people know about Falun Gong. This is the only thing I think about.”
After Oh watched the Divine Performing Arts performance, Oh said that he is all the more convinced in his choice of his lifetime pursuit.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:24 am
More contradictions in your story. More explanations to do.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Your source of news always come from non-independent sources. Conflict of interests.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:55 am
NO no conflict of interest or any more explanations needed. You need to put down your self educating teachings from too many sources as they are the ones that are invalid from years of interference from speculaters like you confusing the truth.. Just study in one school . Even everyday level has same principle when coming to higher level education.. You are not interested in the truth only slandering Falun Gong practitoners and its afiliated media. So no more sense talking with you. You have made your case and i cannot help you any further.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Not very nice leaders they have in communist led China.The Chinese people have suffered enough and this last hoax about Falun Gong being an evil xxxx is the last straw. PLease quit the Ccp for a bright future for yourself. Encourage many other that you care about to do likewise.
kindest regards Jana
10 things you have to know about China
1. Large scale forced human organ harvesting:
Organ Harvested from live Falun Gong adherents, in China Labor camps, hospitals, prisons and military facilities, started from 1999 till present
Reports:
- “bloody harvest“,http://organharvestinvestigation.net/ by David Matas, Esq. and Hon. David Kilgour, Esq. Canada
- UN report on China organ harvesting http://chinaview.wordpress.com/2007/06/16/un-reports-on-china-organ-harvesting/
Video:
- CTV Newsnet Live: Press conference from Ottawa (on China organ harvesting)
ttp://www.ctv.ca/servlet/HTMLTemplate?tf=/ctv/mar/video/new_player.html&cf=ctv/mar/ctv.cfg&hub=TopStories&video_link_high=mms://ctvbroadcast.ctv.ca/video/2006/07/06/ctvvideologger2_691kbps_2006_07_06_1152197705.wmv&video_link_low=mms://ctvbroadcast.ctv.ca/video/2006/07/06/ctvvideologger2_218kbps_2006_07_06_1152197165.wmv&clip_start=00:00:08.10&clip_end=00:11:23.58&clip_caption=CTV Newsnet Live: Press conference from Ottawa&clip_id=ctvnews.20060706.00153000-00153099-clip1&subhub=video&no_ads=&sort
(You need the latest version of Media Player to watch the video)
- Youtube Video: Press conference, by David Matas and David Kilgour:
Part1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkf2u1Umzi4
part2, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rgUMoe0FWQ
part3, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hchaSrVjbLQ
part4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iryj-WfLQoE
2. Largest wave of resignation from the Chinese Communist Party and its affiliated organizations is happening:
More than 39 million Chinese have quit the CCP till July 2008, people are continue quitting at a rate about 44,000 to 56,000 per day in July 2008.
This wave started from 2005, people have posted their statements on the Quit CCP http://tuidang.epochtimes.com/ (in Chinese) http://ninecommentaries.com/
Details information can be found from following 2 posts:
- China: 35 Million Chinese Quit the Communist Party, Apr.13, 2008
http://chinaview.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/35-million-chinese-people-announce-quit-communist-party-on-website/
- Statistics and Q/A: 20 Million Chinese Quit the Chinese Communist Party, April 3rd, 2007, http://chinaview.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/statistics-and-qa-20-million-chinese-quit-the-chinese-communist-party/
3. “6-10 office”, a modern Gestapo organization exists
Formed by former leader of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) Jiang Zemin, the “610 office” has its central office in Beijing, and branches in all the Chinese cities, villages, governmental agencies, institutions, and schools.
Details: China’s Modern Gestapo (1)- Preface
http://chinaview.wordpress.com/2006/09/24/610-office-chinas-modern-gestapo-preface/
4. Torture widely used in more than 300 Forced Labor camps located all over the country Details: List of China Modern Torture Methods (slideshow)
http://chinaview.wordpress.com/2007/03/29/list-of-china-modern-torture-methods-photo/
5. As many as 80 million Chinese died after the Communist party gained power since 1949
This number exceeds the total number of deaths in both World Wars combined.
Details: On the Chinese Communist Party’s History of Killing (external link), by the Epochtimes http://en.epochtimes.com/news/4-12-23/25124.html
6. 5000-year-long traditional Chinese culture was destroyed by the Chinese Communist party
Especially in the 10-year-period “culture revolution”, from 1966 to 1976
Details: On How the Chinese Communist Party Destroyed Traditional Culture (external link), by the Epochtimes, http://en.epochtimes.com/news/4-12-20/25087.html
Youtube Video: First half, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbGa1yCaUoc
Second half, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28uadooVPMI
7. Tibetan shot to death by Chinese soldiers, October, 2006
Reports: Video footage shows Tibetans shot in the back by Chinese soldiers, October 13th, 2006
http://chinaview.wordpress.com/2006/10/13/video-footage-shows-tibetans-shot-in-the-back-by-china-soldiers/
8. Armed police publicly open fire to villagers in south China, December, 2005
Place: Dongzhou village, Shanwei City, Guangdong Province, southeast China
Date: Dec. 6, 2005
Reason: Farmers protest the government plans of partially infilling the bay and build a new power plant
Details: Dongzhou protests, from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongzhou_protests_of_2005
9. Gulja killing- Hundreds, perhaps thousands of ethnic Uighurs killed by armed police, 1997
Place: Gulja (Yining) city, Xingjiang, northwest China
Date: Feb. 5~6, 1997
Reason: calling for an end to discrimination against ethnic Uighurs
Details: Amnesty International
- Rebiya Kadeer’s personal account of Gulja after the massacre on 5 February 1997, http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/ASA17/001/2007
10. Tiananmen massacre – June. 4, 1989
Thousands of students shot to death by tanks and soldiers on Tiananmen square in capital city Beijing in 1989
Place: Tiananmen Square, Beijing, China
Date: June 6, 1989
Reason: University students protested corruption, appealing for democracy
Details &Video : Videos: Tiananmen Square Massacre 18 Years Ago in China
http://chinaview.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/video-tiananmen-square-massacre-18-years-ago-in-china/
July 8th, 2008 at 12:52 am
Ha. If you can fool people by showing one monk represents the whole Buddhism in Korea and enlightened to Falun Dafa, it is showing how you are so naive and being taken your deluded soul away by the evil in Buddha suit. Sorry, you may think you are being saved but you are leading to the wrong way. Show me independent religious group like some leader of Kadampa Buddhism in Tibet or radical Islamic Fundamentalist picked up Falun Gone because it is so good. Don’t show me some unknown Buddhist monk pick up a book and start practicing Zhuan Falun. Can you do that without referencing your propaganda mouthpiece? Of course not because your mind is clouded by the propaganda and nothing can enlighten you any longer. It’s your soul that you are going to be continuously reborn as human being or as animal depends on your previous karma and continue doing what you are doing without any progress. Nothing is more truth than “Impermanence” that’s including all these politics and including Falun Gone. Your group try to persuade Dalai Lama to read Zhuan Falun but he was polite and don’t want to offend your group when one of your member offered him Zhuan Falun. He doesn’t want to make the person unhappy by accepting but it doesn’t mean he agreed with Falun Gone. He knew too well that Falun Gone leader is just full of ‘it’.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:06 am
No not just one monk but many nuns monks from all denominations. One hundred million people all around the world living in everyday society changing the way society should behave – To be kind ,good and endure. Not in monastries but in everyday society.. We can only hope that radical muslim fundementalists would learn Falun Dafa too. You are showing your true colours let stop here now please. When people hear and see the truth like Lee on this blog…I am happy that one has enough Buddha nature in him to realise that Falun Dafa is good.
July 9th, 2008 at 1:04 am
In a hugh country with a few people here, a few people there practicing your nonsense falun gone and you called that 80 or so countries practicing falun gone. There are everyday householders who have been practicing Kriya yoga all over the world and they have been involving in world peace don’t believe in falun gone at all. It’s a joke. Everybody has buddha nature but not everyone see their buddha nature. Lee doesn’t see his buddha nature and just because he is standing on your side, he doesn’t automatically has enough buddha nature. Stop shallow understanding of Buddhism term and go back to use and stick with your buddha school term because your buddha school is not Buddhism as you and your cult organization said before. Besides, he doesn’t believe any of ‘it’ that you practice and he’s just using your group to his political advancement – anti-communist. It’s nothing to do with spiritual living.
July 9th, 2008 at 1:20 am
For someone who says he practises Buddhism and does not have any attachments then i think you are trying just a wee bit too hard mate.. Buddhism is in chaos and demons and devils are everywhere in your temples. This is something that Shakyamuni said would happen at this time. Why do you not listen to your Teacher? Teachings cannot last for ever; they become distorted over time and used by not so enlightened beings to control and make money off of people.
Then when society is in such a bad way and morality has sunk to its lowest levels a new enlightened being and teachings come to offer the chance to save people yet again. This is a cycle that happens over and over again. The Buddha FA is a given constant and in that Buddha FA all religions and cultivation ways exist. Buddha FA does not just relate to Shakyamuni’s time or just him, Christ also exists within the Buddha FA. Falun Dafa also exists in the Buddha’s FA.
You are not doing yourself, your teacher or his teaching’ s any credit at all.
July 9th, 2008 at 1:54 am
Of course you want me to stop because everything was asked couldn’t be answered. I have to expose all these in this blog because I have seen the truly selfish falun gone group which I have tolerated for many years. Here is the article from here: http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2008/6/6/zip.html and read the whole article once. I will then pull out the sections to show how much compassion they show from this article.
Do Not Get Lost When Facing the Big Disaster
(Clearwisdom.net) Following the Sichuan earthquake, many practitioners have maintained a rational mindset and are able to understand this from the Fa’s perspective. On the one hand, practitioners conform to the ways of everyday people by making donations. On the other hand, practitioners are more diligent in clarifying the truth and saving sentient beings.
However, a few practitioners’ thoughts have fluttered, and some human notions have resurfaced. For example, some practitioners were emotionally affected by the aftermath of the earthquake and were crying while watching the sad scenes on television. Some practitioners were actively involved in donation activities. When they met acquaintances they immediately asked, “Have you donated? How much have you donated?” They forgot their responsibility of saving people. Some practitioners hold a hidden excitement within, guessing that the end of Fa-rectification may be coming soon. A few practitioners spend more time watching TV to follow the news, and others speak of things at too high a level when clarifying the truth.
Although we have gone through a lot in the past years and should have sufficiently matured facing these things, when things happen, sometimes our human notions still surface. Emotions in the human realm still affect us. The key here is our basis for looking at these things. We must not forget that we are Dafa practitioners walking on a divine path and can never be swayed from our task of assisting Master in saving sentient beings.
The old forces have arranged many things, such as the Sichuan earthquake, wars in the Middle East, “9/11″ and the tsunami. Although the old forces’ highest-level beings have been eliminated, before the Fa completely rectifies the human world, the old forces’ mechanisms are still operating. Dafa practitioners should be clear on this.
The hot topics regarding the earthquake in China made me aware of everyday people’s zeal for donations, as well of the CCP’s propaganda and further incitement that made people fearful and helpless. Human beings are so fragile. I realized that saving sentient beings is now even more urgent. We should increase truth-clarifying efforts in the process, while cultivating ourselves well.
Based on the many disasters in recent years, we have realized that the purpose of the old forces’ arrangements was to eliminate many human beings and areas with heavy karma. But most importantly, it was to test how many human notions practitioners still have, and whether or not this disturbs practitioners, and if they are up to the “standard.” As long as we study the Fa more, Dafa can help us solve the puzzles. We will then understand everything and be able to catch up with the advancement of Fa-rectification.
——————– Here’s the section you should pay attention ——————
The old forces have arranged many things, such as the Sichuan earthquake, wars in the Middle East, “9/11″ and the tsunami. Although the old forces’ highest-level beings have been eliminated, before the Fa completely rectifies the human world, the old forces’ mechanisms are still operating. Dafa practitioners should be clear on this.
Based on the many disasters in recent years, we have realized that the purpose of the old forces’ arrangements was to eliminate many human beings and areas with heavy karma. But most importantly, it was to test how many human notions practitioners still have, and whether or not this disturbs practitioners, and if they are up to the “standard.” As long as we study the Fa more, Dafa can help us solve the puzzles. We will then understand everything and be able to catch up with the advancement of Fa-rectification.
—————- end of section —————-
Did I take out of context?
Together with the images you can find on the internet that says “Heaven destroy CCP” and (“the old forces have arranged many things, such as the Sichuan earthquake”, “the purpose of the old forces’ arrangements was to eliminate many human beings and areas with heavy karma”), you can actually see that “Heaven destroy China and Chinese people”. Don’t you agree? Isn’t that what causes Sharon Stone into trouble when she said about bad karma?
True compassion do not limit races, religion, rich or poor, and there is no difference between “you” and “me”, and everyone is part of everyone else. That’s the true meaning of ‘Universe’ most of the pure spiritual life is talking about. Falun Gone has misunderstood Universe as the galaxies and brought into wrong directions obviously.
July 9th, 2008 at 2:21 am
Hey that link you sent does not take me to that article but it does take us to all artilces related to very good topics so thanks for that..
I dontknow who wrote that article.. It could have been one practitoeners view on things . Not sure until i see the real article.
But i can say that you cannot have compassion if you have human sentimentality and emotions,They are not compassion.Compassion is above the everyday level of human emotions. Real compassion is when you have no human attachments yet care deeply about humanity in a broader and more complete sense. This is just my limited understanding at my level.
All of humans calamaities are directly caused by the immoral nature that we as a human race have sunk to. Do you honestly think we can keep going on like this behaving disrespectivly of the standard to be good humans? Its not about race,relgion rich or poor why do you even bring that into it? Karma exists and everyone on the planet has it otherwise we would not be here.I cannot see the divine plan no one can only the Gods . But nothing happens by accident.
July 9th, 2008 at 2:27 am
¿¿¿¿ have stated:
“For someone who says he practises Buddhism and does not have any attachments then i think you are trying just a wee bit too hard mate.. Buddhism is in chaos and demons and devils are everywhere in your temples. This is something that Shakyamuni said would happen at this time. Why do you not listen to your Teacher? Teachings cannot last for ever; they become distorted over time and used by not so enlightened beings to control and make money off of people.”
For your information, I don’t practice Buddhism by blindly following those monks and read and memorize scritptures nor do I go to temple to worship statues. I practice studied Sakyamuni’s “Four Noble Truth” and “Noble Eightfold Path” and my practice in Kundalini meditation, Kriya Yoga and Highest Yoga Tantra open my awareness of my environment and my true self (mindfulness). “Buddhism” is not in chaos but when “Buddhism” is involved with profit running, that’s what is in chaos but that doesn’t represent “Buddhism” just because those people shaved their heads and wear saffron robes. Have you heard of “Master of Love and Mercy, Cheng Yen”? She is practicing “Buddhism” by comforting those who are suffering and she helps anyone regardless of race or religion and her nonstop activities to help others even when she wasn’t feeling well have been admired by many in the world. She is the “Mother Theresa” of Buddhism. When you say “Buddhism” is in Chaos, you haven’t truly understand what is true and false “Buddhism” is all about just like you have no clue of what is true and false religion when you are attached to one study only and rely on one source of information. This is not much different from Brain Washing.
July 9th, 2008 at 2:31 am
What you equate with China is not the Ccp. The Ccp is an evil entity that has systematically tried to destroy humanity by killing 80 million Chinese people and now persecuting even more good people Falun Gong whose principles are the very best of humanity -truth compassion and forbearance. The evil entity of the Ccp is a demonic force that has used Chinese people in the party for its own ends… We know there are a lot of good people in the Ccp working to dismantle this evil. And it will happen.
The Chinese people have been brainwashed for 60 years.They are waking up. You see it plain boils down to this. You cannot persecute and stop people from believing in their Gods Buddha or Dao. It’s a crime against the universe. It will not be tolerated. So the Ccp entity really did not know what they were doing when they decided to persecute Falun Gong. They thought they could eradicate us in 3 months, Yet we are here stronger and on the offensive 9 years later. No group has ever been able to with stand such a brutal persecution from Ccp. Who is helping us? who gives us the faith? Otherwise if it was all garbage and nonsense we would have been extinct long ago.
July 9th, 2008 at 2:34 am
“Hey that link you sent does not take me to that article but it does take us to all artilces”
Poor soul…even lost in your own world.
July 9th, 2008 at 2:37 am
I am not arguing with you CCP is good or not. I am just showing how evil your falun gone is so OK with the natural disasters strike in China and it’s due to “Heavy Karma”. Your falun gone group has “NO COMPASSION” of human lives even among those are good people who died. Feel sorry about your poor soul.
July 9th, 2008 at 2:38 am
Thats lovely thanks for sharing that with me. Falun Gong is also helping many many milliions of people in the world to become good pople , to make a stance and say no to persecution, torture , to return to morality and justice .WE are unviersal . 80 countries all around the world is universal and all races come to practice FG.
I am not asking you to practice Falun Gong.I am asking you to support in your heart an end to this genocide of Falun Gong in China. Is that so hard to do?
July 9th, 2008 at 2:53 am
If I have the same evil thought like you, I would think that “it’s ok that those falun gone people are pesecuted because of their bad karma” but I don’t, I am just asking your group to stop the attachment to win over CCP if your true purpose on earth is to “return home”. What you have cause so many innocent people persecuted in China.
Master Cheng Yen did when she left home and started her life as a nun and work to get her food and shelter. She built her own temple without any support from her rich parents until later time when her mom became disciple of her and donated money to build larger temple and facilities to help suffering. She was still working according to the temple’s schedule even though the temple has large donations by the rich and kind people in Taiwan. What have your master do? Sending people to stir the pots in China and being persecuted while he is living comfortably here. By the way, how did your leader make his living? Did he work and earn his own wages by working?
July 9th, 2008 at 2:58 am
People awaken to realize all those false accusations about China’s crackdown in Tibet
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
TOYAKO, Japan (AFP) – French President Nicolas Sarkozy will attend the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympic Games next month despite an earlier threat to boycott over a crackdown in Tibet, according to a statement.
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Sarkozy told Chinese President Hu Jintao he would go to Beijing during a half-hour meeting on the sidelines of the Group of Eight industrialised nations summit in northern Japan.
“The president confirmed to the Chinese president that he intends to go to Beijing on August 8 to take part in the opening ceremony of the 29th Olympiad,” a statement issued by Sarkozy’s office here said.
Sarkozy had threatened to boycott the August 8 ceremony following a Chinese crackdown in Tibet in March that sparked international outrage, leading to speculation that some world leaders might shun the games.
“The head of state consulted all of his European counterparts and with their agreement will attend the opening ceremony in his double capacity as president of France and as president of the European Union,” the statement said.
Sarkozy said earlier that his decision on whether or not to attend the ceremony would hinge on progress in talks between China and the Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama.
Sarkozy has left open the possibility of holding face-to-face talks with the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, who has met with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and US President George W. Bush.
China and the Dalai Lama’s representatives held an informal round of talks on May 4 after deadly anti-China riots broke out on March 14 in the Tibetan capital Lhasa. Another round of talks began in Beijing this week.
The resulting Chinese crackdown triggered international criticism of Beijing’s policies in Tibet, as well as protests in London, Paris and other Western cities that disrupted April’s international Olympic torch relay.
The protests and Sarkozy’s stance have made France a particular target of an anti-Western backlash in China, with hundreds of people staging protests in May at Chinese outlets of French retail giant Carrefour.
China’s ambassador to France on Tuesday warned of “serious consequences” to Sino-French relations if Sarkozy met the Dalai Lama during his visit to France next month.
During his meeting with Hu, Sarkozy expressed France’s desire to boost its strategic partnership with China “in all its dimensions” and reiterated French support for Beijing following a devastating earthquake in May.
July 9th, 2008 at 3:02 am
Yes Mr Li did work up until he began to teach and spread the Fa in China between 1992-94. Then he withdrew fo 2 years then went overseas to teach and spread the FA. All of eh books CD and learning tapes can be downloaded for free off the internet.
If your practise today was deemed a criminal acivity by your government and was slandered as being an evil xxxx would you also not peacfully go about trying to tell the truth about it? Thats all we are doing… The Chinese have been deceived and are not alowed to practice any true genuine religion at all. This is everyone fundemtnal right. A world without religion is a living hell.The Christians spoke up for their religion and did not stop pracitising under the face of eveil persecution, neither do we
July 9th, 2008 at 3:04 am
“China’s ambassador to France on Tuesday warned of “serious consequences” to Sino-French relations if Sarkozy met the Dalai Lama during his visit to France next month.”
This is threat to the French re trade and other threats made when they start a war . The world is scared of communist power. Falun Gong is not.
July 9th, 2008 at 4:18 am
Re Lee,
“what you try to convince me here? flg is bad?”
— That’s right, but not really. Practice is good. However, people shouldn’t be blind folded about the allegations by http://www.bible.ca/falun-gong-falun-dafa-zhuan-falun.htm, as well as the issues presented by American Humanist Association, and Rick A. Ross Institute. The inhuman indicant that happened in Flushing, NYC was a disgrace to Chinese, having the same origin as mine, looks almost the same as me.
— And I hate to see that whoever doesn’t agree with flg, will be slammed with communist title. Do they know that besides black and white, there are millions other colors?
“communist is good? “
— Not the subject here, I’m sure there’re many online discussion web sites that focus on that.
“let’s get rid of flg?”
— You’re brilliant!
“in the eyes of communist, flg is the “evil cult’ and the most dangerous enemy, in the eyes of flg followers, flg is the most precious thing in life so they won’t give it up no matter what. “
— I like diligent people. However, I don’t like lie, inhuman, intolerant. If you really hate CCP, then fight like a nobleman. You don’t want to side with them. There are many other democratic movement organizations that would love you on board. I know CDJP(cdjp.org) maybe a good choice.
“In my eyes, since I don’t like communist, anyone who oppose them is my friend.”
— I don’t think so. The Lesser of Two Evils is still not my friend.
“Look, the communist have been trying to get rid of flg for many years and failed, they the fire starter, those links you sent wouldn’t exist if communist didn’t advertised the world about flg, we wouldn’t see flg on the street if communist didn’t get too extreme with the persecution, now if you don’t like to see flg’s activities and fed up, maybe you should either join the communist with their effort, or tell the communist to make peace, so flg won’t have any good reasons to get into “politics” and we may no longer see them on the street.”
— Again, I’m no black, nor white. Nobody so far has been able to push me to either side. The links that I presented are credible. I’m willing to trust them then flg.
“after all, it’s the communist started all the trouble for you, me, and flg.”
— That doesn’t give them the right to lie. Fight like a nobleman.
“okay, let’s talk about the reality, flg is legal here, the last time I checked it is legal to practice everywhere except china, as matter fact, the congress pass a resolution to protects them, don’t tell me the congressmen are all idiots and would want to come up with a law to protect ‘evil cults.’ There must be good reasons. on the other hand, we all know communist is not welcomed in the states and flg opposes communist, so if you are in the state, think before choose your sides.”
— Well, I have no side. I’m independent. My common sense is not bind by any mind washing machine.
“You know about flg’s quitting ccp activities right? flg’s message is simple, “if you not happy about the government, just quit it”, first of all, they got some good reasons, second, they know there plenty people not happy in china, third, they make the procedure simple and you don’t need to join them, think about it, it sounds ridiculous, but it’s really genius, simple yet effective. “
— Yes I know that. But people don’t have to go by that route. I heard Wei JingShen had similar thing.
“We all know communist forces everyone swears to serve them unconditionally in china since elementary school,”
— That’s a piece of joke. Do you really believe people are abide to it? Otherwise, everybody is a CCP member.
“I know I did and now I quit, although I wasn’t a member, but just announce that I fed up with the communist makes me feel good, and you know what, flg helped me with that.”
— If you were not CCP member, how do you quit? That’s FLG’s logic. You don’t need flg to help you to show your discontent with CCP. You can do it anywhere, such as NYC subway station, or your personal website, maybe a bumper sticker will help too. Frankly speaking, your logic would not help your cause.
“Back to my point, weather you like it or not, the situation right now is communist is crumbling down with troubles all over, but flg is gaining the momentum. and for those who are sicken tired of the communist party in china, flg is their hope.”
— I don’t think “communist is crumbling down”. Look at the sky high nationalism in China. And I don’t think “flg is gaining the momentum”. People used to support it just like you. However, people are getting a bitter taste of it in Flushing, NYC. I’d never assume that flg is their hope. I believe the separation of state and church, here refer to flg, cause it’s a religious group. Then lets us know who is going govern the country? Rather, I’d like to see KMD marry CCP might the best choice. Don’t tell me that they killed millions, tell me which major nation hasn’t killed millions.
“For the sake of argument and come back to the bullhorn, I would have to disagree flg is disrupting earthquake relief. why? because I asked them about it and they denied the intention of disrupting, so I believed them. simple as that.”
— You’ve just asked the defendant. Have you talked to the other side? It wouldn’t be a fair trail if you simply talk to one side.
“Last thing, just curious, can you show me just one picture with flg’ sign saying:” tian mie zhong guo”?”
— I’ve already posted the link and comments before. Go look for it.
– My last common sense. If CCP is really that bad as you described, the US should not have normal relationship with China. And should be still supporting the guerrilla training camp in Colorado for Tibetan Freedom fighters, by the way, they are all “peaceful monks”. Also, tell all the businesses to stop building factories in China. Maybe they should be nuked, which isn’t much different than the earthquake. Wait a minute. Am I talking to extremist here?
July 12th, 2008 at 4:57 am
FALUN DAFA HAO!!!!!!
July 12th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
It comes down to whether or not Falun Gong is good…
July 13th, 2008 at 1:46 am
No wonder the oldest and largest humanist organization, American Humanist Association, call Falun Gong “incompatible with our dedication to reason and science”
July 13th, 2008 at 3:59 am
All the cult organizations will always claim themselves as legitimate religions and the others are all corrupted. Religions are created by men and always has an element of segregation of mine vs yours and which is not a whole or as “holy”. Only when you remove all these segregation of “me” and “you” element, then you will become ‘holy’. That’s the reason why the wars are not stoppable regardless of all these world religions efforts. It’s the same with I am American, I am French, I am Chinese, I am Communist, I am Capitalist, I am Catholic, I am Buddhist, I am Christian. ‘I am’ is the part that is segregated element. Human has created this labeling to segregate to become chaos and conflicts. Conflicts cause suffering and suffering is the fandamental truth taught by Sakyamuni.
July 13th, 2008 at 5:02 am
What is so hard to understand that the teachings of a saviour, Tathagatta Buddha or Tao will not last for ever without being contaminated by human thought ego and attachments. The teachings can only last 6 generations at the most unless you have access to exactly what these saviours taught.2000 and 2500 years on that would be extremely difficult and also remmeber that mans mind was a lot simpler in those days. The mind is not today. WE had to be taught these teachings from the previous saviours in order enlighten to what is today.Its called evolution…
I agree only in this complicated envirnoment with our wars, disgreements and immoral lifestyles can we as cultivaters truely rid ourselves of these attachments. and we can only do that thru suffering and paying off our karma at the same time. The cause of all suffering is karma.
The people also thought Buddha Shakyamuni was a fraud and same with Jesus, the people even crucified him in their ignorance. The same ignorance you are showing to day by declaring that Falun Gong is a xxxx.
July 13th, 2008 at 5:08 am
Kungfupanda said
“No wonder the oldest and largest humanist organization, American Humanist Association, call Falun Gong “incompatible with our dedication to reason and science”
People of faith and true believers all say
All atheists and superstisous scientific groups have an incompatiblity with any spiritual path or religion.
Although when top scienctist reach the edge of their physical proof athey also begin to cal it God, Love creation.
July 13th, 2008 at 7:43 am
Re Jana,
“All atheists and superstisous scientific groups have an incompatiblity with any spiritual path or religion.”
— That should not interfere with “reasoning”, which is the foundation of free society.
“Although when top scienctist reach the edge of their physical proof athey also begin to cal it God, Love creation.”
— That’s misleading. Or I should say propaganda. Not all “top scientist …” And even when they do call it God. do you know which God they refer too?
Just wondering where did you learned “A world without religion is a living hell”?
And that religion is what? Falun Dafa? or Christian? or both? or any other religion?
Frankly speaking, I don’t think the world will be better off with Falun Dafa along, when all the allegations as well as other religions out there. Also, with Falun Dafa’s “intolerant positions”, how can it peacefully co-exist with other religions on the earth?
I know you like religious freedom. So, lets review what’s religious freedom.
1. Without oppression, believe, worship and witness (or practice freedom from belief, worship and witness), as you wish;
2. Change your beliefs or your religion; and/or
3. Associate with others to express your beliefs.
(Don’t give me any credit on that. I got it from http://www.religioustolerance.org/)
I assume you like the first one. But there are laws that are designed to protect others from their safety, freedom. I guess its not easy to balance out. Then how about the second and the third?
I know some FLGs are smart and kind, with high IQ. However, their reasoning capability will be adversely affected by the religious beliefs. It wouldn’t help when they talk to their customers or managers. I’d like to encourage them to look around, be a free man, think out side of Falun Dafa.
Let me conclude this session with Mahatma Gandhi’s words:
“The need of the moment is not one religion, but mutual respect and tolerance of the devotees of the different religions.”
July 14th, 2008 at 3:46 am
RE KungfuPanda,
1. That should not interfere with “reasoning”, which is the foundation of free society.
A. rational belief is from a true religion which I agree is hard to find in today world. Its only since religions have become unfashionable thru this superstitious bully called science that our morality has hit the skids and the earth is on the eve of destruction … oh yes and thats according to materialist scientists who have no idea what to do next….
2. That’s misleading. Or I should say propaganda. Not all “top scientist …” And even when they do call it God. do you know which God they refer too?
A. Where did I say ALL top scientists? I classify top scientists who have truly made the discoveries of what this universe is made up of. Not materialist scientists who talk about environment etc and cannot find any cures for the modern diseases even today. I ‘m talking about scientists who have discovered a very limited understanding of the universe .. these top scientists are now calling it God or love. Please try to not to miscue my words to save valuable time please.
3. Just wondering where did you learned “A world without religion is a living hell”?
A. Look at all the countries who don’t have a strong true faith in their God. Buddha or Dao.. Africa for one….
4. And that religion is what? Falun Dafa? or Christian? or both? or any other religion?
A. Yes any religion as long as they truly believe and become better people then our world will improve. Imagine of we had politicians, big business , media that did not lie? And thats just one example.
5. Also, with Falun Dafa’s “intolerant positions”, how can it peacefully co-exist with other religions on the earth?
A. Why do you say we are intolerant of other religions? I have not said Christianity or any other religions are bad. I continually say Gods Buddhas and Daos, and also say that the whole world is in a huge moral dilemma when it cannot rationally see that persecution torture of any people including Falun Dafa is wrong and should stop immediately. How does your rational scientific thinking account for this Genocide?
6. I assume you like the first one. But there are laws that are designed to protect others from their safety, freedom. I guess its not easy to balance out. Then how about the second and the third?
A. We associate with others all of the time and express our beliefs . How do you think we have managed to alert the world and have many politicians and VIPs speak out for us. I was a Christian and a Buddhist in the most shallow way before I found Falun Dafa. I can change if I wish to, leave if I wish too. I choose not too because for once I have found something that makes sense; is not blind belief but a rational way of answering all the questions that I have asked and that other religions could not. That’s doesnt mean that others in their religions can not find these answers it simply means that I could not.
7. I’d like to encourage them to look around, be a free man, think out side of Falun Dafa.
A. What do you think we have been doing all our lives? Watching TV?Twiddling our thumbs? I have been searching all my life . My earliest memory was wondering why I back here on earth again? I was depressed for the first 6 months of my life, my mother confirms this. I left Sunday school at the age of 6 because the nuns/priests could not answer my intelligent questions about Jesus. There is nothing in this world that would interest me anymore. Falun Dafa is so immense and all encompassing . What you have surmised or read is merely surface level at your own limited critical understanding. Quantum physics is open ended , they can keep on discovering more as their own minds expand, So it is like with Falun Dafa. If you don’t have the heart to learn you will never understand it.. end of story.
8. “The need of the moment is not one religion, but mutual respect and tolerance of the devotees of the different religions.”
A. I believe that I have given full support of that statement many times over. We all have different Gods Buddha’s and Dao’s in each race of people. That why its silly to say mines right yours is wrong…Killing in the name of your God will send you to hell and regimes who take power over the people thru the barrel of a Gun will not survive and will also go to the gate of no life…
Rational higher thinking – Falun Dafa. Remember this, we are completely non violent, we embody the tenets truth compassion and tolerance and if more Govts could achieve this for their people and more people could achieve this for themselves then it would be a much more peaceful harmonious world to live in.
July 15th, 2008 at 5:08 am
i see every day that their is way to many hooker’s in flushing ny. and they ask 2 grand en hr are you people crazy. why here in usa. i dont want it here.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:06 am
“The teachings can only last 6 generations at the most unless you have access to exactly what these saviours taught.2000 and 2500 years on that would be extremely difficult and also remmeber that mans mind was a lot simpler in those days. The mind is not today. WE had to be taught these teachings from the previous saviours in order enlighten to what is today.Its called evolution…”
The people also thought Buddha Shakyamuni was a fraud and same with Jesus, the people even crucified him in their ignorance. The same ignorance you are showing to day by declaring that Falun Gong is a xxxx.”
Who in the authority said that the teachings can only last 6 generations at the most? What is generations are you talking about? Who are you referring to when you said “The people thought Buddha Shakyamuni was a fraud …” and show me the reference where you get that information. How much do you know about Jesus and how much intimately do you know about his biography? Why do you want to compare Buddha Sakyamuni and Jesus to your master? Buddha Sakyamuni and Jesus is much closer than Buddha Sakyamuni/Jesus as compare to your master. Buddha Sakyamuni and Jesus can heal the sickness regardless of karma/sin because they can take on their karma/sin but not your master. Sorry! not in this lifetime.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:36 am
4. And that religion is what? Falun Dafa? or Christian? or both? or any other religion?
A. Yes any religion as long as they truly believe and become better people then our world will improve. Imagine of we had politicians, big business , media that did not lie? And thats just one example.
There are so many evidence pointing to the media of Falun Gone with smearing tactics like those western media and you call that not lie? You approach some of the western politicians to get your agenda across; to deface China. Check out the website: anticnn.com and see for yourself which country’s police brutality pictures are being taken from.
July 15th, 2008 at 7:01 am
I was a Christian and a Buddhist in the most shallow way before I found Falun Dafa. I can change if I wish to, leave if I wish too. I choose not too because for once I have found something that makes sense; is not blind belief but a rational way of answering all the questions that I have asked and that other religions could not. That’s doesnt mean that others in their religions can not find these answers it simply means that I could not.
Aha. You were not devoted Christian nor devoted Buddhist. You were just browsing and you found Falun Dafa because the guy was so charismatic in speech (I have seen them all) and knows how to BS and you fall for it. Sure, when you don’t have enough base and someone come along and criticize that your religion is not good and corrupted, and you should converted to mine with all these copies from other religions (Buddhism, Taoism, Yoga, Christian, Meditation, old civilizations) and combined and rolled them into one called ‘Falun Gone’. Without that much reading and your wisdom eye opened, you just fall for the beautiful paintings painted by your deluded master and believe that’s the heaven must look like. Sure Sure. That’s the way to reach your heaven.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:28 am
So you admit to there being a Christian religion that is valid and a Buddhist religion that is valid but have no tolerance for remerging ancient and recent paths.. Now you are showing your true colours Like i said you would have crucified Jesus and persecuted Buddha shakyamuni in their days.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:28 am
Why Falun gong followers go to Capital Hill to protest every year? Besides propaganda, getting more money from China haters, what else do they want? Do they want US to go to war with China? Or do they want US to nuke them?
July 16th, 2008 at 3:46 am
Why are you so violent and unable to understand this one statement-
The persecution labelled as a Genocide from the UN of the peaceful Falun Gong must stop NOW!!
Thats all we want…. if you cannot understand this statement without accsuing us of all other motives when clearly there is none then you have lost this discussion completely..PLease become rationale. What the Ccp has told you about us for years is wrong . The lied, they like to target a group and instill hatred against them so that the spotlight is off them and their crimes against the Chinese people. Hitler and other brtual regimes and dictaters use this tactic to keep the population from rising up to over throw them…Why doesn’t the Ccp want democracy? I presume you are living in US or some other democratic nation?. Do you like living with freedom of thought speech and freedom to practise your culture and religion etc???
July 16th, 2008 at 4:16 am
Re Jana #198
1. That should not interfere with “reasoning”, which is the foundation of free society.
rational belief is from a true religion which I agree is hard to find in today world. Its only since religions have become unfashionable thru this superstitious bully called science that our morality has hit the skids and the earth is on the eve of destruction … oh yes and thats according to materialist scientists who have no idea what to do next….
— I like your franklyness about true religion. But is it all the religions, including Falun Dafa, claim that their religion is genuine? With the fundamental difference between religious groups, how do people achieve rational thinking that’s acceptable by everybody?
— Science is not bully, and not superstitious as you stated. That’s what I make a living. I believe that’s true to a lot of people, including some Falun Dafa followers who may still work in big corporations doing all sorts of scientific experiment. So as to put food on the table for their family. In addition, the world is getting better. With globalization, more and more people are getting to know each other. When I was young, even the neighboring villages don’t have the exact same culture. And the culture difference was huge between rural area and big city. Now, with telephone, television, road, railroad, airplane, as well as internet lately, people are getting to know each other better, and the culture is rapidly melting.
– The human moral is going nowhere but high. Think about this, blanket bomb a city was norm during the world war II. Now, nobody dare to do it again, and somebody even invented precision monition so that fewer civilian can be harmed during a war.
— I believe that majority people are good, from their heart. I witnessed dearly through the relief efforts for the Sichuan devastating earthquake victims. Even the Dalai Lame offered his official condolences to victims. Comparing to Dalai Lama, Christians, or other faith groups, as well as those who may not have a religion; my conclusion is quite obvious that Falun Dafa is full of hatred, the worst thing in the world. I can hardly blame each individual, it is the true believe that drove people so inhuman. I know you were Christian, like many others, who cherish human live. I don’t understand why you want to mingle with Falun Dafa, defend those who don’t care about human sufferings? One of the three corner stone of Falun Dafa is compassion. How does that explain what had happened in Flushing, NYC?
2. That’s misleading. Or I should say propaganda. Not all “top scientist …” And even when they do call it God. do you know which God they refer too?
Where did I say ALL top scientists?
— It’s true that you didn’t put “all” there, but I prefer “when some top scientist…” is more honest than “when top scientist…”
I classify top scientists who have truly made the discoveries of what this universe is made up of.
— I don’t call that kind of person as scientist, which many help human’s spiritual live, but that’s about it. For those who don’t have a religion, that means nothing.
Not materialist scientists who talk about environment etc and cannot find any cures for the modern diseases even today. I ‘m talking about scientists who have discovered a very limited understanding of the universe. These top scientists are now calling it God or love. Please try to not to miscue my words to save valuable time please.
— That’s what I called scientists, who have invented many many good things that have improved human life. Count the average live expectancy, as well as infant mortality rate (IMR). Don’t you agree that they are also very fundamental to human rights? So, when you get sick, where do you go to?
3. Just wondering where did you learned “A world without religion is a living hell”?
Look at all the countries who don’t have a strong true faith in their God. Buddha or Dao.. Africa for one….
— To be frank, I don’t have a religion at the moment. But I never believe I’m having a life like hell. I have religious friends, as well as none-religious friends. I pay tax, raise my family, help others who are in need, respect the dead as well as the law, no matter I agree or not. On the contrary, a friend of mine had his family turned up side down by this “intolerant” Falun Dafa religion, almost destroy his family. Anyway, there’s a good discussion about “A world without religion” at http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion-philosophy/96436-world-without-religion.html
4. And that religion is what? Falun Dafa? or Christian? or both? or any other religion?
Yes any religion as long as they truly believe and become better people then our world will improve.
— But is it that all the major wars were also caused by religion?
Imagine of we had politicians, big business, media that did not lie? And thats just one example.
— That’s true. But again, nothing is perfect. So far I haven’t find any perfect world, except the heaven. That’s a nice place. Anybody care to go there first?
Wait a minute, did communist claim the same? And thus kicked KMD out of mainland? Hum, people are so simple.
5. Also, with Falun Dafa’s “intolerant positions”, how can it peacefully co-exist with other religions on the earth?
Why do you say we are intolerant of other religions? I have not said Christianity or any other religions are bad. I continually say Gods Buddhas and Daos, and also say that the whole world is in a huge moral dilemma when it cannot rationally see that persecution torture of any people including Falun Dafa is wrong and should stop immediately. How does your rational scientific thinking account for this Genocide?
— You’re rational on that. But that doesn’t mean Falun Dafa isn’t. Otherwise, American Humanist Association would be very happy to endorse it. I too hate senseless persecution, torture, as well as genocide. But I still have a very big question mark circling in my head. WHY? I know that you’re smart, have you got a chance to check out other sources? It wouldn’t be a good judgment if you only talk to one side. BTW, have any of you Falun Gong friends told you why it is banned in China? Did anybody mentioned that they besiege the press, besiege the TV Co., crack down the press by out numbered followers? Or did you heard about it and simply laughed and forget about it.
6. I assume you like the first one. But there are laws that are designed to protect others from their safety, freedom. I guess its not easy to balance out. Then how about the second and the third?
We associate with others all of the time and express our beliefs . How do you think we have managed to alert the world and have many politicians and VIPs speak out for us. I was a Christian and a Buddhist in the most shallow way before I found Falun Dafa. I can change if I wish to, leave if I wish too. I choose not too because for once I have found something that makes sense; is not blind belief but a rational way of answering all the questions that I have asked and that other religions could not. That’s doesnt mean that others in their religions can not find these answers it simply means that I could not.
— I’m glad that you’re free. How about other Falun Dafa followers? Care to share your experience how you get converted from Christian to Falun Dafa?
7. I’d like to encourage them to look around, be a free man, think out side of Falun Dafa.
What do you think we have been doing all our lives? Watching TV?Twiddling our thumbs? I have been searching all my life . My earliest memory was wondering why I back here on earth again? I was depressed for the first 6 months of my life, my mother confirms this. I left Sunday school at the age of 6 because the nuns/priests could not answer my intelligent questions about Jesus. There is nothing in this world that would interest me anymore. Falun Dafa is so immense and all encompassing . What you have surmised or read is merely surface level at your own limited critical understanding. Quantum physics is open ended , they can keep on discovering more as their own minds expand, So it is like with Falun Dafa. If you don’t have the heart to learn you will never understand it.. end of story.
— Frankly speaking, Falun Dafa is much more controversial than your previous faith. You just associated yourself with a man made Eastern God that’s under fifty year old of history. I know you will argue that it is from Buddha and Dao. However, that Eastern God has changed it a lot, becomes too much political, which I haven’t seen in either Buddha’s or Dao’s history. They all focus self-improving, not blame others.
8. “The need of the moment is not one religion, but mutual respect and tolerance of the devotees of the different religions.”
I believe that I have given full support of that statement many times over. We all have different Gods Buddha’s and Dao’s in each race of people. That why its silly to say mines right yours is wrong…Killing in the name of your God will send you to hell and regimes who take power over the people thru the barrel of a Gun will not survive and will also go to the gate of no life…
— I’m glad that we can get consensuses on that. I hate killing too. That being said, I also hate spreading hatred with lies. I know some people are sensitive to, or even hate CCP. But it will do no good to promote the cause, since people simply can’t trust it. When you google “Falun bait and switch”, you will find that sentiment too. Just like myself, sooner or later, more and more will realize the deceptive nature of this Eastern religion.
— You’re from the West. I bet you have friends or family members who may be Christian. As an expert on Falun Dafa, how do you explain “Falun Dafa denies Jesus is the son of God”.
Rational higher thinking – Falun Dafa. Remember this, we are completely non violent, we embody the tenets truth compassion and tolerance and if more Govts could achieve this for their people and more people could achieve this for themselves then it would be a much more peaceful harmonious world to live in.
— Almost all the religions claim that their thinking is the greatest or perfect. However, from the information I can gather, Falun Dafa’s teaching rejects anything that’s critical to it. Without critical thinking, how do people achieve rational higher thinking? By the way, is it sounds the same that communism doesn’t accept critics?
— Without rational reasoning and science, how can Falun Gong win court case? As Quebec Superior Court Justice Jeannine Rousseau wrote in a decision for a civil defamation case brought against Les Presses Chinoises by 232 Falun Gong practitioners. The court stated that there was insufficient evidence that the journal had defamed the practitioners. In paragraph 39 of her judgement, she stated that Falun Gong’s teachings includes rejection of science and promise of supernatural powers. In paragraph 40, she added that Falun Gong was a controversial movement which does not accept criticism.
http://static.wikipedia.org/new/wikipedia/en/articles/f/a/l/Falun_Gong_9fb1.html
— I know that Falun Dafa claims no violent. But that doesn’t clear my concerns about the allegations, such as “bait and switch” tactics for new converts. In addition, I especially concerned about the super natural power that’s been preached to children. I know Christian liks children. Do you want that happens to children?
July 16th, 2008 at 5:23 am
Re Jana #205
No, I’m not violent. In fact, I’m pretty rational. No, I still don’t understand your statement “The persecution labelled as a Genocide from the UN of the peaceful Falun Gong must stop NOW!!”
Please post a link of UN regarding genocide.
If you want China to stop, why don’t you go to UN? Why do you go to US? Why don’t you go to China? If the war is not what you want, so you want a sanction or what? Do you think China will not respond? Do you think it’s a good idea to risk US’s interest for the Eastern religion’s interest? I know you’re talking about human rights, but do you think US is doing nothing about human rights? I think US has being doing it’s part about the human rights in China. It doesn’t need you to get more confused.
“What the Ccp has told you about us for years is wrong.”
— That’s pointless speculation, by the time that Falun gong was banned in China, I was swamped by CNN and BBC, as well as the mighty internet. CCP had told me a lot of things, so do CNN and BBC.
“The lied, they like to target a group and instill hatred against them”
— Is it what you guys are going to do in Capital Hill?
“Hitler and other brtual regimes and dictaters use this tactic to keep the population from rising up to over throw them… Why doesn’t the Ccp want democracy? ”
So you want to over throw the ruling government? Tell me if that’s what you want?
“Do you like living with freedom of thought speech and freedom to practise your culture and religion etc???”
— You’re absolutely right. But I also hate lies. I hate people get hurt under the guise of freedom of speech and religious practice.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:59 am
To Jana:
“So you admit to there being a Christian religion that is valid and a Buddhist religion that is valid but have no tolerance for remerging ancient and recent paths.. Now you are showing your true colours Like i said you would have crucified Jesus and persecuted Buddha shakyamuni in their days”
Keep your facts straight. Stop twisting something I didn’t say. I have never say that I would have crucified Jesus nor persecuted Buddha Shakyamuni in their days. It’s your twisted saying that Buddha Shakyamuni was persecuted without any proof. As always, you want to twist things to make your point and make others to believe you are saying the truth. Who is persecuting Buddhism? Let’s see the facts.
Here’s the statement from your deluded master: “After Sakyamuni left this world, Brahmanism and Buddhism battled. These two religions later merged into one, called Hinduism. Buddhism no longer exists in India today as a result of this.” (http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/flg_1.htm)
What a joke~. See the definition of Hinduism from wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism
It’s the oldest religion and based on Vedism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedism
Here’s the account of how Buddhism was destroyed in India; not by Hindu but by Muslim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Buddhism_in_India
In India, Buddhism were driven out not by Hindu in 12th century as your deluded master claimed. It’s by the Muslim burned the Buddhist relics and monasteries. Hinduism accept Buddha as one of their avartar and without fully reading other sacred texts from India, you won’t understand. There are 84,000 different sects but there is only one way to be enlightened and it’s not ‘Falun Gone’ for sure because of your attacks all those Buddhism indiscriminately. Just as I said before, there are beings that are impersonating as “Communist”, “Buddhist”, “Christian” and all these labels are just created by human society, but if you indiscriminately bunch all of them together, then you are stereotyping all the good beings as bad. That’s not the wisdom of the truth. Learn to differentiate the difference, you misguided low level practioner or you will not escape from the Samsara no matter how much “Dharma wheel you are trying to turn”.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:44 am
Hi Kungfupanda,
Many thanks for your replies I wish we could talk face to face which is much much better but I think we live in different continents so I will do my best to answer your questions and criticisms.
I hope there can be peace between us ( which is the most important result ) because from what I see you are a good person its just that your ideas about Falun Gong have been distorted due to the Ccp lies and propaganda about Falun Gong.
Once again I can say no other country has any problem with Falun Gong – only Ccp and the poisoned people who believe them. Many Chinese do know the real story of Falun Gong and quietly pray for an end to this Genocide even they though they don’t speak out for fear of their life being taken. Many lawyers and spirited individuals have also been sent to labor camps and tortured because they have and continue to help the cause of Falun Gong in China.
1.You said— I like your franklyness about true religion. But is it all the religions, including Falun Dafa, claim that their religion is genuine? With the fundamental difference between religious groups, how do people achieve rational thinking that’s acceptable by everybody?
I said WE should not focus on the differences but accept that each religion and cultivation way has a specific way and principles to follow. Its like going to University to study and achieve a degree but we can choose all different subjects to achieve that degree. Right? We all know that some lawyers are not very good people now because they cheat the law to get their clients off. They no longer listen to the heart of law or apply the ethics to protecting the law so the profession of lawyers has slid down morally right? They have give the profession of law a bad name..
So it is with some Monks Priests Minsters ect who have behaved badly in the name of their religion. They have changed the principles of the original teachings to accommodate themselves and their immoral life… Since it has been such a long time ago that Jesus and or Buddha Shakyamuni came to impart and teach these principles so one can say that the original teachings no longer exist and cannot be taught anymore since 1. Buddha Shakyamuni and Jesus did not leave any scriptures behind to remind them . 2.We only have 1000 generations of people interpreting what was told to them generations before..
Lao Tsu however left a way or the Dao for people to follow. A correct way of honouring the heavens and the earth and each other..Of course no one is really paying attention to these teachings anymore because when CCP took power they abolished all religions destroyed all religious relics’ and scriptures. Luckily Lao Tsu scriptures/poems had already been printed in the west..
My point being that all these teachings were genuine and valid in their day but owing to the Teacher not being here anymore and to humankinds degenerating morality no one is practising the genuine teachings anymore,.
You said “Science is not bully, and not superstitious as you stated.”
I said : Science is a bully when it will not recognise what they cannot materialise and dissect for investigation. Which is all very good for everyday earthly survival but the moment the Govt of the day in the 1800’s wanted the religions to have no power over the people and they urged Darwin to print his nonsense on man coming from apes’
( even when Darwin did not feel right about publishing it, as he had serious doubts about his theory) that’s when science was used for political purposes to eliminate the power any King and religion had over everyday people. To this day anytime religion is mentioned to most scientists (expect the top ones who dabble in quantum physics) then we are clubbed down and we are called superstitious.
God made mankind in his form and since there are approx 5 different races on the planet and they were all made in their Gods form. So that’s why intolerance of other religions is not acceptable at all and was not acceptable to Buddha Jesus or Lao Tsu or Falun Dafa.
When religions use politics and violence to murder others then is it still a good religion? I am not saying Jesus teachings were not good or Buddha’s ( they were good) but those who do these vile actions in the name of this religion are not true religious believers for they are not listening to their teacher.
You said “– The human moral is going nowhere but high. Think about this, blanket bomb a city was norm during the world war II. Now, nobody dare to do it again, and somebody even invented precision monition so that fewer civilian can be harmed during a war.”
I said, when a political power takes power thru the barrel of a gun, rules with violence, makes it a crime to put God above them as the Ccp has done ; when the very best of humanity can be murdered for trying to become better people, would you not say morality has sunk down very badly today. Especially when our Western Govts have appeased the Ccp in order to for trade to occur and They have put money before humans and destroyed the quality of humanity’s conscience even more so?
Like I said this is persecution not just of the physical but of the humanities conscience, in which we Falun Dafa are doing our very best to save. ..
You said “my conclusion is quite obvious that Falun Dafa is full of hatred, the worst thing in the world. I can hardly blame each individual, it is the true believe that drove people so inhuman.”
I said “ Where on earth do you get your information from? Ccp news? WE are not full of hatred but instead compassion for all humanbeings. We did not stop anyone from donating to the earthquake appeal. All we said was that maybe your money might not get there as the ccp is so corrupt. And no one can argue with that one. Even the rich stars in China only donated small amounts to make them look good because they knew. The Ccp had CCTV camera men and journalists onsite before Faun Gong even got there in Flushing to cause the stir that some NY ex Chinese politicians encouraged a mob to stir up trouble, No where in all of US TV media were these films shown . only inside China to stir up hatred against FG before the Olympics to justify calling us terrorists and rounding us up even more…The NY politician is now being investigated and will probably have to stand down. And only Chinese mobsters have been arrested and charged with violence assault and crimes of hate.. NO Falun Gong practitioners have ever been arrested anywhere in the world except inside China; Now why is that? . Infact the police could see clearly who the troublemakers were and had great sympathy and respect for us in our non violent approach.
You said “— I’m glad that you’re free. How about other Falun Dafa followers? Care to share your experience how you get converted from Christian to Falun Dafa?”
I was disillusioned that those in power in Christianity were not true believers or practiced what Jesus had asked them to do. I searched for many years and could not have any of my questions answered. Churches were no longer sacred in the west anyway.. So for a few years I stopped looking for the answer and became a not so good person although I did not really know that at the time. I knew I was unhappy..I saw cruelty everywhere dishonesty as i watched the world I knew all around me begin to disintegrate morally and ethically including myself.
Then one day thru my delusional life someone taught me the exercise s of Falun Gong. I thought it was a way to improve my breathing as I had become a fitness junkie… He did not study the teachings, as he too was a martial arts person and perfecting his fitness.
He went his way and I found Falun Dafa and thru study found all the answers to my questions I had since the day I was born and so much more. I liked the principles and the way of looking inwards at my problems and solving them with the principles of truth compassion and tolerance. And to this day I have not nor will ever stop because the more I study the more my mind and heart expands and the more compassion I have emerges for all sentient beings. Why else would I do this talking to you if I did not believe that way too many chinese people have been duped into thinking that this is wrong when I know that this is the very best in the world at this time.
It is simply not true what you have heard or read about Falun Dafa.
You said “However, that Eastern God has changed it a lot, becomes too much political, which I haven’t seen in either Buddha’s or Dao’s history. They all focus self-improving, not blame others.”
I said,. You can call us political but we do not want power for ourselves nor do we wish to be elected power and nor would we accept this if it were offered to us. That’s the difference you see. We have our own wish and it is not of this world. We just want the persecution to stop because it is harming humankinds conscience all over the world.
You said “As an expert on Falun Dafa, how do you explain “Falun Dafa denies Jesus is the son of God”.
I said . Nowhere have I ever read that Falun Dafa denies Jesus being the son of a God. Never . That is lies made up from cult buster sites or people with bad intentions towards Falun Dafa. If you want to know more about Falun Dafa either go to a genuine site or talk to a genuine Falun Dafa person. No sense going to those who hate Falun Dafa right?
You said “Almost all the religions claim that their thinking is the greatest or perfect. However, from the information I can gather, Falun Dafa’s teaching rejects anything that’s critical to it. Without critical thinking, how do people achieve rational higher thinking? By the way, is it sounds the same that communism doesn’t accept critics?”
I said “ You can criticise me or Falun Dafa but if they say we kill our mothers and babies and cut the wheels out of our stomachs or set ourselves on fire etc… then we will protect the good name of Falun Dafa because real people who know us would never say that. Only people with a political agenda, propagandists –Ccp and Ccp collaborators and atheists cult busters would dare to say anything as stupid as that. Like what the Politicians made Darwin do so as to silence the monopoly religions had over people… History repeats itself over and over..
You said “ I know that Falun Dafa claims no violent. But that doesn’t clear my concerns about the allegations, such as “bait and switch” tactics for new converts. In addition, I especially concerned about the super natural power that’s been preached to children. I know Christian liks children. Do you want that happens to children?”
I said “ Once again controversy over nothing. Christians accept that Jesus was born thru Immaculate Conception which I also believe and that he could walk on water and change few loaves of bread and fish in many and water into wine. I believe those things. Once again that’s science clubbing us with what they them selves cannot explain.
There are many unexplained phenomena that cannot be explained by science of today. Way too many. So what ever cannot be explained becomes superstitious and crazy to them. Our science has taken us down a path that limits our explanation of the universe and the entire unexplained phenomenon that we as humans have manifesting concretely in our physical dimension. That’s why I said scientists of today are superstitious because they will not admit to the unexplained phenomena that exists today. They dismiss it because they do not have the tools to investigate it even though it exists in this dimension.
If you could time travel back to 300 years and say to the people that we will be landing on the moon and have computers and take recordings of everyday life to show back to everyone (films) then they also think you are mad. But if you went back 2000-3000 years ago they would have believed you especially in China.
Well I think I have answered your many questions and I thank you for giving me the opportunity to do so. Please put aside what you have read or heard from Ccp about FG. Yes many good people do not understand us but they recognise that we are good people and our principles are very high and they know what the Ccp is doing to us and poisoning the Chinese nation against us is not right either.
Let there peace between us now.
Kindest regards Jana
July 16th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
To Jana,
I found most falun gong practioners ignore one thing, that is most chinese neither like CCP nor like Falun gong. I am from mailnland, and I dno’t think you really know what chinese in mailland are thinking, on the other hand, I don’t think you really ever study chinese culture. If you have been in china and take some time to study chinese history and culture, you will find how shallow your falun gong media’s artical (chinese version), what a shame falun gong said they represent traditional chinese culture.
From your comment, it can tell you know nothing about china’s history and current, all your comment is from that “Nine Commentary on CCP” or other articals from Falun gong’s media.
Time will tell you the truth, let’s wait and see how long falun gong can last. By the way, one thing I can’t understand, why Falun gong’s epoch times changed Master Li’s latest picture, which he last showed in New York’s conference and tell the world he can’t resist getting older and older, and using a old younger one? Where is the truth you falun gong said?
July 16th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
To Jana,
One thing I want to correct, when I said all your comments I mean your comments about china, about CCP and Falun gong, all related to china, no other topic.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
re Wendy I don’t know what you are talking abut re Teachers picture, Sometime i find the way the critics talk so petty .
Maybe you don’t know this but all of our news comes from Chinese mainlanders and Chinese from HongKong. So please do not have the tenacity to discredit the only uncensored and truthful news coming out of China today.
The sheer fact that all reporters were guaranteed freedom press during the Olympics and now they don’t.. That when the real terror began inside Tibet Ccp shut down all foreign media and that when no more alive earthquake survivors could be found the Ccp also threw out all the foreign press again to hide the real tragedy of 20 million being displaced and homeless.
Ccp media has no credibility what so ever except with those in the west they have bribed with lucrative deals do their bidding. We know that all Foreign media inside China have been told that if they wish to stay and work there they cannot mention Falun Gong in a Good way. They abide by that blackmail but they have sold their souls to the devil because they do know infact the whole world knows that the Ccp is murdering good innocent people and you know it too.
Dont waste any more time.
We know in the west that all media coming out of china has been censored and released by the United Fronts works department and that nothing is written truthfully . So please do think we do not know whats going on in China. Maybe alot of Chinese do not but we do.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
To Jana,
about epoch times web sites replace Li Hongzhi’s picture three times at the day New York’s Falun gong conference opened, can’t remember date exactly, seems May 24, 2008.
After the conference opened, epoch times published an article about it on its web site, also with a picture of Li Hongzhi at that day, from that photo it clearly tell Master Li is getting older and older. But after a while epoch times web site changed this picture for a one after modified using photoshop, and after another while, this web site finally removed Li Hongzhi’s latest picture, using a previous younger one.
Here is the picture link some one saved for first, and last picture from epoch times.
http://www.hardkingdom.com/freshrain/viewtopic.php?t=7800
http://news.epochtimes.com/gb/8/5/25/n2129880.htm
Another question Jana, do you know the history about Tibet?
July 16th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Re Jana,
You said CCp media has no credibility, I 80% agree with that.
I am working in a western country’s News Agency now, outside china, can you tell me the credibility of Falun gong’s media?
July 16th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
re Wendy
How do you know that they deliberately printed a younger picture? You are assuming because that’s exactly what you or the Ccp would do. At least he has not had any surgery which everyone and anyone in public life these days has. Some pictures of people are not very flattering. I see pictures of Britney Spears and other so called famous beauties and the press prints pictures of them with out makeup and they dont look so good either. How do i know that the link you sent me was not photo shopped to make Mr Li look older. Like i said i saw him 2007 and i was amazed at how healthy and young he looked, People also say the same about me I am 51 but apparently my daughters friends think i am 35.
And you know what who cares? I don’t.. so why bring up such petty things…it has nothing to do with cultivation. Its a by product of it but we are not attached to such petty things. .Honestly if you have nothing better to do with your lives and cannot find anything more sinister about FG than that then doesn’t that show you we are all okay..and that what the United front works department says is all lies?
With regards to Tibet all i know is that the Ccp has one cop to every 20 Tibetans over there and they can’t move or even read any books or scriptures that have not been approved by the Ccp. The sterilise without anaesthetic any Tibetan women who cannot pay bribes and fees for a non sterilisation certificate to exempt them from it. They have brutally tortured and murdered at least one million Tibetans . They have taken them from their grasslands and put them concrete hovels with no running water and heat. They are starving, depressed and the ccp is ethnically cleansing them from the regions so as to full access to their water and power and oil.
You know the BBC just aired a programme all about it and it the same what they do to the Falun Gong inside China. The world knows what the ccp is ..so do you.. so why do you lie and hide behind them?
July 16th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Re Jana,
Is the final picture on epoch times the real current Li Honzhi or not? why they change it? because I am a normal people on the earth, so I am curious about it, and when I compare those two pictures I can see big difference, who is lying is very clear.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Chinese Dissidents Take On
Beijing Via Media Empire
Satellite TV Gives
Falun Gong Loud Voice;
Crackdown Back Home
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119508926438693540.html?mod=mm_hs_media
Wall street journal article
If you cant get it shout and then ill post the whole article for you…
July 16th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Here is one from AP
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003540598
Jana, who is lying and not admit the truth is very clear here. I am not hiding neither, don’t need to do that.
Once again, tell you my real feeling for Falun gong, I have very close relatives who are Falun gong practioners, from them I have a chance to know Falun gong and talked with a lot Falun gongers outside china. And from falun gonger’s action, from their’s uplevel commander or you called that coordinater, I can see Falun gong are the same as CCP, I don’t believe neither Falun gong nor CCP, both are liers.
As to Falun gong’s media, Jana, you should know the rules of being a professional journalist.
Compare CCP’s media articals and Falun gong’s, they have the same style. Falun gong is funded under CCP, so no surprise they are almost the same in every way.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Another fact I said Falun gong is liar, Falun gongers in Canada lost a appeal case in Qubec Court, but on theirs web site they said they won it.
Qubec appeal court’s decision for this case:
http://www.jugements.qc.ca/php/decision.php?liste=30680586&doc=4001005559471707
Falun gong’s website’s article about this case:
http://www.minghui.ca/mh/articles/2008/5/17/178679.html
July 16th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Wendy,
On your comment “…I can see Falun gong are the same as CCP, I don’t believe neither Falun gong nor CCP, both are liers….”
I have two questions :
1) how much do you believe West reports about Tibet ?
2) How much do you believe West reports about Middle East ?
Personally, I think Chinese state media simply doesnt report “bad” stories, hardly can be called lying, at least in last 15 years.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
How is Falun Gong funded under CCP?
July 17th, 2008 at 6:51 am
To Jana:
“With regards to Tibet all i know is that the Ccp has one cop to every 20 Tibetans over there and they can’t move or even read any books or scriptures that have not been approved by the Ccp. The sterilise without anaesthetic any Tibetan women who cannot pay bribes and fees for a non sterilisation certificate to exempt them from it. They have brutally tortured and murdered at least one million Tibetans . They have taken them from their grasslands and put them concrete hovels with no running water and heat. They are starving, depressed and the ccp is ethnically cleansing them from the regions so as to full access to their water and power and oil.
You know the BBC just aired a programme all about it and it the same what they do to the Falun Gong inside China. The world knows what the ccp is ..so do you.. so why do you lie and hide behind them?”
You cannot answer my question regarding how Buddha Sakyamuni had been persecuted and I showed how your deluded teacher’s false suggestion about Buddhism was driven out of India and Hinduism was the result of merging Brahamanism with Buddhism. (208). Can you trust BBC programme? Visit this site http://www.anti-cnn.com/ and see for yourself how western media had portrayed false news and pictures made to push their propaganda to sabotage Olympics. Are you still going to side with western media knowing that the false news had been spreading against China? Where is your “Truthfulness”? Falun Gone has already showed “Compassion” was not there. Now, “Trhtufulness” is in question. What is next? “Forbearance”? It does not exist either as you can see that “Falun Goners” will not accept any “constructive criticism”. Spiritually false, politically motivated Falun Gone will be exposed and more people will truly understand what “Falun Gone” is.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:39 am
re Specu8
The BBC programme was filmed on location in Tibet and under cover. They went into Lasa and filmed in the local town squares. They went to the so called housing developments and interviewed the Tibetans who were under house arrest there and starving. The Police were everywhere We saw with our eyes what the police were doing to the Tibetans.
The world knows what teh Ccp is like and what cruelty of what is going on. The Ccpp suport all communit regimes and juntas all over the world under the
we have apolicey of not interferring in other countries affairs. They say this so thay can stop us from checking Chinas interntal affairs out which everyone knows are SHOCKING.
Speculat8ur you are convincing no one other than the other spies that work for the Ccp.. Give it up. In fact you sound like another spy i know Charles Lui alias Bobby Fletcher where he alway says where is Falun Gongs truth.?
Here is an article that was Media article written about Charles Lui alias Bobby Flethcer as he was exposed for the spy he is.
http://www.westernstandard.ca/we…cle.php? id=2436
http:// organharvestinvestigation…dard_040907.htm
Western Standard (Alberta): Sowing Confusion; Embarrassed by reports of live organ harvesting, China’s sympathizers launch a high-tech disinformation campaign
April 9, 2007 Monday
Final Edition
SECTION: NEWS; Pg. 24
LENGTH: 699 words
HEADLINE: Sowing Confusion; Embarrassed by reports of live organ harvesting,
China’s sympathizers launch a high-tech disinformation campaign
BYLINE: Kevin Steel, Western Standard
BODY:
He posts his messages everywhere under several different names on Internet blogs and discussion groups. He writes letters to the editor anywhere and sends e-mails to anyone–anyone who might take seriously shocking evidence that the Chinese government “harvests” and sells live organs from political prisoners. His main message is that the Falun Gong–the group which first brought evidence of live organ harvesting to light–and the Epoch Times newspaper that broke that story are spreading propaganda against China’s Communist government. And he’s not even Chinese. He is Charles Liu, a 40-year-old Taiwanese-born technology consultant who lives in Issaquah, Wash., and does business in China.
Liu has been so active and so pro-Beijing in his writings that some Falun Gong supporters–in particular Epoch Times reporter Jana Shearer–have accused him of being an agent for the Chinese government, waging a disinformation campaign against them, trying to confuse people, and deliberately wasting everyone’s time.
It’s a charge that upsets Liu, who dismisses it as “a bunch of kooky friends making unfounded accusations. It’s just a bunch of blog BS.” As for why he devotes so much energy to attacking the Falun Gong and the organ harvesting allegations, he says, “My position is that I simply don’t agree with their brand of politics, because I observed their politics turning from anti-Communist party, to anti-China, and recently it’s morphed into this anti-Chinese hysteria and that’s going to be hurting people,” he says.
As an Asian-American, he says he decided to speak up.
He doesn’t really explain, when asked, why he started a blog last year called “The Myth of Tiananmen Square Massacre” under the name of Bobby Fletcher (one of his online aliases, which he also uses to comment on the Western Standard’s online blog). On that blog, he pushes the minimal 250 casualty figure that the Chinese government has always maintained died that night in 1989 (more reliable estimates put the figure at least ten times that).
Liu’s actions mirror disinformation campaigns waged by the Chinese
Government in the past. Typically, these include the deliberate spreading of false or misleading facts to sow confusion or doubt among the conflicting accounts. The classic example is the Tiananmen Square massacre; the Chinese government has maintained that no one died in the square itself, that there was only pushing and shoving on the streets around the square, resulting in a few military casualties. Overseas, the CCP relies on its United Front Work
department, part of the Chinese intelligence service, to propagate its message. During the Cold War, the Soviets employed many overseas flunkies through their Disinformation Department.
Former Canadian MP David Kilgour, who co-authored a report on China’s
macabre organ harvesting industry, has received many propaganda e-mails from Liu. For instance, Liu has written repeatedly that a U.S. congressional committee looked into the organ harvesting allegations and found nothing.
“[David] Matas and I gave evidence to that subcommittee and got support from both the Republican chairman and the Democratic vice-chair,” says Kilgour. “I just came to the conclusion he was trying to waste my time, and I have other things to do.”
Winnipeg-based human rights lawyer, and Kilgour’s co-author, David Matas, really doesn’t know what to make of Liu. “I don’t know who he is, but what he does is spend a lot of time replicating nonsense to defend the Chinese government,” Matas says.
The only concern Matas has is that Liu seems to know who he and Kilgour met with in the United States to discuss their report. Matas discovered Liu had sent e-mails to politicians–and their staff–prior to the meetings. “The only people who would have that information would potentially be the Chinese government. I can’t imagine how Liu would know we were meeting with those people,” Matas says. “We’re not super-secretive, but you can’t find information on the Internet or in any public place about who we’re meeting with, where and when.” He himself has received at least 10 e-mails from Liu, all of which he’s ignored. Maybe Matas is onto something with that approach.
I can tell you now that i am no kooky friend of Bobby Flethcer or Charles Lui so whats he hiding behind those lies?? How easy to see ..
July 18th, 2008 at 1:45 am
Wendy Specul8ur and WAHaHa are working in the same writing circle of Bobby Fletcher and Charles Lui . I have come across you lot before..
Now i have heard everything…. The Epoch Times newspapers is funded by CCP? They are trying to shut us down but they cant. we are in 30 countries and 15 languages..
July 18th, 2008 at 1:58 am
Jana,
FYI, I don’t belongs to CCP nor any thing to do with China nor Taiwan. I don’t have blind trust to any media, period. The world is full of deceit and you cannot trust everything that you see on TV or newspaper as the only truth. It’s amazing how gullible that you folks are. True that the website that I refer you to is pro-China but it doesn’t make me pro-China. It is so bizarre to accuse me like Charles Liu as a spy. When is your conscience will turn to face the Truth? Your conscience is full of DARK deceitful mind. I feel sorry about your future.
July 18th, 2008 at 2:04 am
Jana,
Again, when you are desperate and cannot be helped, you should look inward. Your mind is very cloudy and angry. Learn to contemplate your mind rather than trying to throw all these nonsense that I am working in the same writing circle of Bobby Fletcher and Charles Liu. True nature will revel who I am. I don’t know Wendy nor any of the people on this blog. They have their point of views and I have nothing to do with them.
July 18th, 2008 at 2:56 am
So many of the worlds people have chosen to support the illegal and immoral legitimacy of the communist regime and what they have done is hurt the Chinese people and even more so the conscience of our world. What is worrying is that all the appeasement that has been given to Ccp has run out; our Govt’s have nothing left to barter with anymore, so what’s next?
I have a faith, as you know, i am a Falun Gong practitioner and what i understand is this..It is no longer a battle between Ccp led China and the world but a battle in each of our minds and hearts. There are good people in the Ccp just as there are bad people in our countries too. The good people do not like what is going on and from what I can see have made that choice in their limited power or environment to actively condemn this evil that has spread thru humanities conscience.
We have insider news that many Ccp members are working hard to dismantle the Ccp from within . So far over 40 million Chinese have resigned from the Ccp and its affiliated orgs. Mostly under changed names but never the less a promise from their heart and conscience which is what counts .
http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/t/quitting-the-chinese-communist-party/
http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/canada/ottawa-rally-celebrates-40-million-chinese-quitting-the-communist-party-1045.html David Kilgour was a this recent rally
http://ninecommentaries.com/
This is why the Ccp cannot “eradicate” Falun Gong because everything we have done to stop their persecution against truth compassion and forbearance has been done legally, peacefully , morally and with good conscience . No power can stop this..
What denotes people in today’s world as “good people” is they still have ability to know right from wrong. And in each org, each country, each govt, and each media they are everywhere. This has been my experience. It takes one good person to destroy a thousand evils..We will not lose this battle.
What will happen during and or after the Olympics? This affair is coming to a close very soon.
Kindest regards Jana
July 18th, 2008 at 3:00 am
Re Daniel,
I think Wendy means “Falun Gong founded under CCP” government.
It’s the kind of typo that I could easily make too.
July 18th, 2008 at 4:39 am
Jana,
With Falun Gone’s logic, anyone can create a website called “Quit the Falun Gone” and anyone can register to the site as easily reachable to billions but it won’t make sense, will it? Any web application programmers can write commands repeatedly to register names/alias with the site to create sensation of reaching billions. Then, will the 40 millions means anything? It’s only a numbers and unless you have to turn in your CCP certificate or something, how can you use that figure to proof your point? It’s so childish and any kid can think better way. It’s you who still have human thoughts and attachments that won’t give up this thought and must win over is exactly the same reason as all these religious wars around the world causing my religion is better than yours and my leader said if we die, we become the martyr while we get rid of those evil empires. J. Krishnamurti said, all these are the conditioned of the societies and religions and the human are just like animals with conditioned response until we realize and remove these conditions, then we are free from conditions and can realize with your rational mind without any influence from anyone. There is only time when these conditions are removed is when human are faced with hugh natural disaster like SiChuan earthquake and wake up from our animalistic condition and our natural kind heart awaken to help the suffering fellow human beings without any difference in religion, race or country. That’s exactly I am writing why all these religions failed to address the wars. It has nothing to do with CCP or no CCP.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:34 am
Specul8r,,what does “with Faun Gongs logic mean? You see you have lost me with that statement all you do is deny anything that Falun Gong has to say . Ask you self this… Why after all these 9 years plus are we still here? any other group CCP has persecuted is finished in weeks i am sorry to say . Do you hear yourself .. How easy would it be to amass 40 million signatures? are you kidding ? Visit the site and you will see that there are many pledges valdiating their quitting..David Kilgour is a former secretary of state Asia pacific and a MP in Canadas Govt, he would not just show up at any old thing if were not true. He also lobbys for the end to all conflict and genocide.in Sudan . Hes a heavy weight when it comes to authenticity and kudos so please shut up for once, get rid of your communist loyalties and move forward into a better future with out communism for they will come to get you next..
Nine Years of Campaign of Genocide in China
On July 20 , 1999 the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) launched a violent persecution of Falun Gong. On July 22nd, nine years will have passed since Falun Gong practitioners’ peaceful resistance began.
Overview of the CCP’s campaign of genocide against Falun Gong
The largest religious persecution in the world today – by 1999, almost 100 million people were practicing Falun Gong according to Chinese Government reports at the time.
While Falun Gong is practiced freely in more than 70 countries, it is subject to egregious and horrific human rights violations in its homeland. These are well-documented by human rights organizations, journalists, witnesses, and scholars. The sheer scale of abuse makes this the largest religious persecution in the world today.
One explanation for the seemingly irrational campaign is the proclivity of China’s Communist Party, which espouses a doctrine of militant atheism, to fear all groups outside its control–particularly those which subscribe to a different ideology. In 1999, as the largest and fastest growing spiritual group in China, Falun Gong became a target.
Jiang Zemin alone decided that Falun Gong must be “eliminated”
Journalists and writers have widely acknowledged that the decision to launch the persecution was inspired by the “fear” and “jealousy” of former-Party head Jiang Zemin alone. According to analyst Willy Lam, Jiang was seen as “using the [persecution of the] mass movement to promote allegiance to himself.” Sources cited by The Washington Post, state that “Jiang Zemin alone decided that Falun Gong must be eliminated,” and “picked what he thought was an easy target.”
A campaign of extreme torture
The most prominent feature of the campaign is its systematic use of extreme torture. Torture of Falun Gong adherents has been documented in each of China’s provinces. Torture is meted out by police and public security officials in jails, labour camps, brainwashing centres, detention centres, and police stations in China’s big cities, small towns, and villages.
Frequent torture techniques include shocking with electric batons, burning with irons, tying the body in painful positions for days, force-feeding saline solutions or other harmful substances through a plastic tube inserted in the nose, ramming bamboo into the fingernails, the use of custom made ‘tiger benches’ to contort the body, among many others. Psychiatric abuses of equal severity have also been documented, for example, in the highly prestigious Columbia Journal of Asian Law. Rape, gang rape, sexual abuses, and sexual torture of Falun Gong practitioners in detention are also widely reported.
To date, over 63,000 accounts of torture and over 3,000 deaths have been documented. Communist Party-insider estimates of the real figure puts the actual death toll in the tens of thousands. Repression also includes: dismissal from work, expulsion from universities, deprivation of health care and pensions, divorce, homelessness, and numerous other forms of discrimination.
Hundreds of thousands currently languish in China’s gulag system
For hundreds of thousands, the most basic reality of the campaign has been long periods of detention in “reform through labour” camps – China’s gulag system. There, practitioners are forced to work up to 20 hours per day, producing toys, Christmas tree lights, chopsticks, soccer balls, etc., for export. Refusal to work may be met with beatings or torture. The regime’s goal is to force practitioners to renounce their spiritual beliefs, and turn in others who are active in exposing the persecution.
Organ harvesting – “A new form of evil”
David Kilgour, former Canadian Foreign Minister (Asia-Pacific), and David Matas, a renowned human rights lawyer, conclude in their report, BLOODY HARVEST: Revised Report into Allegations of Organ Harvesting of