(Blog writer) Buxi: “If many Chinese are still skeptical about cooperating with the Dalai Lama, it’s not because we’re unaware he claims to have rejected independence; it’s because we question whether he really means what he says.”

(This is a pro-Dalai Lama website. Year was 1997, ten years after his “Five-Point Proposal” and “Middle-Way Approach” were solemnly declared in U.S. Congress).

http://www.tibet.ca/en/newsroom/wtn/archive/old?y=1997&m=6&p=3-2_2
Marchers’ Private Audience with His Holiness The Dalai

…[The Dalai Lama] added that many people, Tibetans and friends of Tibet, think that the middle path is not
right. Instead, Tibetans need to struggle for independence and talk about
independence. For this reason, His Holiness explained the need for Tibetans
to discuss what they want and to make a decision. “People must talk about
independence,” He said. “That is good. We have the right to ask for
independence, but we need to think of our methods to struggle for
independence. Only prayers will not get independence, and only slogans will
not get independence.” His Holiness stressed that Tibetans must carefully
and systematically construct and implement a method to pursue independence.

Your “nine points” seem to me merely a collection of some of the most anti-China views popular among the China bashers in the media or on Internet forums in the West. The tone, the logic, and the style of your piece all reminded me of CCP propaganda at its worst, despite a long list of reference trying to give your arguments an air of “well documented research”. People like you seem to be interested more in preaching and attacking than engaging in dialogue with others to seek truth. Fine if that’s what you want.

But I have to point out that some of your frequently quoted sources are in fact not only terribly biased but also stupid lies. I was open minded but being put off half way watching “Undercover in Tibet” in which a Tibetan woman complained about pain from a forced sterilization. By now the whole world must have known that the Tibetans are, like all other minorities in China, exempted [replaced the word "exonerated" as a friendly correction. - admin] from one child policy applied to Han Chinese. It was as if the narrator had problem finding more facts to show the government’s bloodiness or he was simply ignorant of basic truth about Tibetans who live in China today. A source like this costs the credibility of your arguments darely.

re the question in my last post – were you perhaps referring to the 1993 International Lawyers’ Conference in London?

You ask excellent questions, so thanks for that. I’m going to break it out again on a new thread, and hopefully everyone will follow this discussion over there.

http://blog.foolsmountain.com/?p=168

But ask yourself just one question, JUST ONE:

WHY IS THERE NO FREE PRESS IN CHINA?
What is the CCP afraid of, by not allowing a free press?

Let me answer your question with a question. Why does France and Austria ban “holocaust denial”? What is it that they’re afraid of?

The Communist Party in China is obsessed, laser-focused on maintaining stability, and it believes this is done by shelving any sort of popular debate for now. Many Chinese have conflicted feelings on whether this policy is right.

But if you really believe they block discussion because logic and reason isn’t on China’s side… well, this is why we’re here. You can make any argument or point that you want, and we’ll discuss it with you clearly and logically.

You’re going to have to do better than linking to Tibet.com and telling us to go and have our minds opened. I’ve read everything on that site, and my position on Tibet remains unchanged. Those sites are hardly objective by the way; you would be better served learning your facts from historians, not politicians.

I embrace Tibetans in China as my brothers/sisters, I want them to have the same political and economic rights that I have, but I personally refuse to accept independence for Tibet, and I remain very skeptical about political formulas that makes independence more likely.

“International Jurist experts have, on weighing up all the evidence presented by Tibet and China, unequivocally determined that Tibet was, and still has the all the rights to be an independent sovereign nation…Countless serious historians and experts have all determined the same; Tibet is an illegally occupied country and should be given its sovereignty back.”

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you on this but could you give some more details, preferably a link? Who are these “International Jurist experts” & “serious historians & experts”? And why do you think the latter are any more credible than those you describe as “all sorts of “experts” of the most dubious calibre and reputation who readily, or perhaps for a kind reward, are willing to concur with the CCP’s version of “history””?

My understanding is that the legal status of Tibet is very far from being “abundantly clear”. As far as I am aware, there is no consensus among international legal experts on this matter.

I don’t see anything constructive arising in debating them here because it is quite clear that she is using this as a platform to spew venom. Sigh.

That aside, since when is Desmond Tutu best friends with the Dalai Lama?

The Nobel Peace Prize is a joke at times. Adolf Hitler was nominated (though later revoked) in 1939. Rigoberta Menchu who won in 1992 is exposed as a liar with her fraudalent accounts in her iconic autobiography. Need I also mention Al Gore? Anyway I digress.

You are tilting at windmills, mate. CCP version history books have little credibility in this forum. Furthermore, don’t put all the blame on CCP, KMT share the same view regarding sovereignty over tibet. Quote from a letter of Chiang Kai-shek to the 13th Dalai Lama.

“Tibetans are an ethnic group within the Chinese nation. The government is urging the Commission for Mongolian and Tibetan Affairs to investigate the actual situation so as to invest in the construction of the region. “

Just what, if any will enter the minds of these poor souls here, which have been reduced to trading CCP Propaganda-Lies, and sadly in many instances condescension, insults and profanities. Just see any blog, youtube etc for this.

The scale of the atrocities is so staggering and really totally unimaginable (in the 21st century or even in the dark ages) that it begs the question how anyone can defend such a decadent cabal, for all the heinous crimes committed there is a litany of lies.
The CCP has incurred, and rightfully so, the wrath of all righteous people around the world, bar politicians, and this has nothing to do with Western Media, the Dalai Lama or Xenophobia, it is of their own making.

Yet still they post as if the CCP’s version of history has any credence, any at all.
The legal status of Tibet is abundantly clear; it is an Illegally Occupied Sovereign Nation.
The CCP has manufactured, distorted and re-invented history to suit their cover-up of their heinous crime of occupying Independent Tibet.
Negotiations with the Chinese is just the only option left for the Tibetans – But only because the Chinese have the guns, the numbers, the power and they have demonstrated countless times that they are willing to use it indiscriminately to suppress, murder and subjugate the Tibetans in their own, illegally occupied homeland.

The mind is feeble; malleable, pliable and manipulable you can make the holder do whatever you program it, he will do your bidding, no matter how vile or depraved.
For once the mind is subject to a meme it has lost its control, faculties, judgement and moral compass.

The CCP knows this all too well, and exploits it with frightening success.
This site is ample testimony to this.

sorry, forgot the link.

According this speech, I don’t think he abandoned seeking independence in 1992.

+++++
The way to respond is to pick the relatively informative parts and ignore the attacks. After all, you are really responding to every potential viewer of the site, not just the person you’d rather ignore.

For example, I’m going to respond quite simply to one nugget Dale Anderson wrote (snark or not):

Dale Andersen Says:

Now use your logical faculties for once in your life. The Dalai Lama is a religious leader. He preaches love and responsibility and tolerance. And you expect him to humble himself and recognize the suzereignty of a bunch of dirty militant one-way motherfucker atheists? He said no for the same reason the Pope says no.

Well, the Pope was a Nazi and the Dalai Lama did not say no. For nearly a decade, he was the vice chairman of PRC’s NPC Standing Committee and member of the CPPCC, organizations that he and the Panchen Lama traveled to Beijing to participate in.

(On the occasion of PRC’s 1st NPC session in 1954, Mao greets Tibetan representatives. L to R: Panchen Lama, Mao Zedong, Dalai Lama)